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Porsche questions GT-R Ring claim

  • By Paul Gover
  • Herald Sun
image Porsche questions GT-R Ring claim.

Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.

Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.

It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.

"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."

He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.

Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.

"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.

Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.

"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.

"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."

In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.

"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.

Related articles:

Nissan hits back at Porsche cheat claim

 

Comments on this story

Displaying 3 of 166 comments

  • Ummmm, Peter - the R35 was quicker than either Porsche on a WET track? Must have been right pouring in April then! Not that I'm particularly fond of Porsche and I do think the R35 is a pretty amazing weapon for it's price. Just a pity Nissan built so many doo-dads into it with the resulting weight penalty. At least it's a damn sight closer to what it should be than that abortion called a 350Z!

    ac of SA Posted on 30 September 2008 4:15pm
  • sounds and looks like the niss will leave the porsche for dead

    jason of gosford nsw Posted on 30 September 2008 4:11pm
  • It's hard to call. Good setup does go a long way. Just check out the 5th gear Golf GTI vs STI test and you see a car that is slower on paper (Golf GTI), post a quicker time than the (in theory) faster STI. Porsche's (and Nissan's) times are questionable though, simply because it's their times. Give the cars to Sabine and let her sort em out. Alternately, wait until The Stig gets a hot lap in all of them.

    Jimbo Jones of Melbourne Posted on 30 September 2008 4:08pm
  • Read the facts fellas and you will realise that the Nissan claims are NOT for a standard GT-R. It has about the same power but is much much heavier than the Porsche.

    Amazed of Warner Posted on 30 September 2008 4:05pm
  • "For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says. Translation - We couldn't understand how a Japanese car could be so much faster than a German car - so we got other people to drive our GT-R until the times were worse than the Porsche times. Maybe if Porsche spent a little more time actually changing the look of the 911 (it basically looks exactly the same as when it came out - in the friggin 1960s !!!) - then maybe they wouldn't be crying about lap times and performance figures ??

    Dan Posted on 30 September 2008 4:03pm
  • Well they would say that wouldn't they.

    Howard Posted on 30 September 2008 3:54pm
  • What is Porsche going to do next, complain that the even quicker Corvette & Viper cheated too??

    Tony Posted on 30 September 2008 3:47pm
  • Even if the Porsche times were right, why would you fork out an extra $200k to go 5% faster in a retro styled sports car that looks like every other 911 on the rd. If nothing else, hopefully Nissan has shown other supercar makers that their models are rediculously overpriced. Go GTR!

    Reuben Buchanan of Sydney Posted on 30 September 2008 3:27pm
  • Isn't it funny how every magazine and on Top Gear's track via multiple drivers the GTR is a bit quicker that the Turbo... I think Porsche is getting a bit precious..smile

    Patrick Tye of Sydney Posted on 30 September 2008 3:24pm
  • In 20 years time, when we look back at the supercars of the noughties, the GTR will be remembered for being a spectacular performer. The 911 Turbo & GT2 will be remembered for being spectacular designs AND spectacular performers - and therein lies the difference. Porsche spooked and needing to improve? I don't think so!! The Japanese still have some way to go to truly be able to compete........ And if today you can buy 2 08 model GTRs for the price of one 08 Porsche, in 20 years time you will be able to buy five. Both camps will always have their supporters and detractors, but ultimately time will decide the winner......and it will have been built in Zuffenhausen.

    John David of Sydney Posted on 30 September 2008 3:17pm
  • GTR is fabulous value for money, no doubt. Porsche isn't. Viper's still faster and it's a real car. No AWD, no traction control, no auto transmission. Just a great chassis, big brakes and a monster engine. Sign me up !

    Guy Oakes of Sydney Posted on 30 September 2008 3:16pm
  • look at the car that's $160,000 and the other car that's $340,000. Porsche would have to be threatened by the GT-R. run them both again, with officials present and see which one gets the best time. simple.

    Anthony blyth of Merrylands, NSW Posted on 30 September 2008 3:15pm
  • Well Well Well, SOme people care some dont, about which car is faster by a half of a second Which car is faster? it all depends, which driver? which weather? which tyre? but in the end the GTR is simply the Best supercar in the world, no, not for looks or performance, just plain value for your money! Even if it is slower than a Porsche, I still want one, and after selling my 2001 GTR34 V spec2 I will be getting one very soon. The $250000 I save from not buying the Porsche, I can spend on the missus and she wont complain so much!

    Nigel SNow of Sydney Posted on 30 September 2008 3:11pm
  • So why isn't a 3rd party comparing these two cars on the Nurburgring? That way people can get off their high-horses about the GT-R. Don't get me wrong, it's a modern great, as are the Porches, but someone OTHER than the factories needs to get a clear result, then we can all get some sleep.

    Simon of Sydney Posted on 30 September 2008 3:10pm
  • Both cars are exceptional, but if the GTR had been modified to perform faster then the production model Nissan deserve to be caught out.

    Chris Schembri Posted on 30 September 2008 3:03pm
  • Lets see Sabina Schmidt in both of them back to back and then the truth will come out. Both cars are good but I agree the figures don't quite add up.

    AG of Melb Posted on 30 September 2008 3:02pm
  • Looks like and independant head to head is needed.

    Ted Perry of Sydney Posted on 30 September 2008 2:58pm
  • Lies, lies and more lies......until my GT2, Turbo and R 35 GTR arrive in my garage and I ship them to the "Ring", and I learn how to drive fast, I will remain confused. We are after the 'true" faster car, around Nurburgring, between these three regardless of make, price or ethnicity aren't we? Best we wait until Top Gear solve this conumdrum for us!

    ross kroger Posted on 30 September 2008 2:54pm
  • All I can say that a Seiko Watch migh look good and tell good time but its never going to be a "ROLEX" if you know what I mean, You only get what you pay for remember..

    robert lane of CBD Posted on 30 September 2008 2:52pm
  • I am inclined to believe Porsche in this. I however would love to see a fully independent test of this. For any production car to beat the GT2 is phenominal. However the fact that the GTR is less than 40% of the price of the GT2 I think is even more phenominal.

    DM of Melbourne Posted on 30 September 2008 2:12pm
  • TeH GTR can NeVaR LoSE!@1!!!!eleven!!1!one!!

    random of Sydney Posted on 30 September 2008 1:43pm
  • if they have the evidence to back it up i dont see why not i mean anything can happen haha just wait for the v spec to come out

    yang of perth Posted on 30 September 2008 12:59pm
  • oh no, ze must go back to the drawhing board, the japanese are coming with a faster and cheaper car.

    heath of brisbane Posted on 30 September 2008 12:53pm
  • Looks like Porsche feels a little threatened that a car costing less than half the price of its own cars, and not built in Germany, can be such a strong performer. I agree with Peter, I think Porsche should stop criticising the GTR.

    Sam of Brisbane Posted on 30 September 2008 10:57am
  • Boo hoo - porsche is spooked.

    fred Posted on 30 September 2008 10:56am
  • When the R35 GTR first hit the ring and broke 911 Turbo record, it was a wet track, so semi-slick would've be a disastrous choice. The GTR then smashed the record again while test driving the V-Spec model. Porsche, stop criticising the GTR and finds ways of improving!

    Peter North of Sydney Posted on 30 September 2008 10:13am

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