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Porsche questions GT-R Ring claim

  • By Paul Gover
  • Herald Sun
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image Porsche questions GT-R Ring claim.

Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.

Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.

It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.

"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."

He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.

Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.

"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.

Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.

"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.

"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."

In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.

"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.

Related articles:

Nissan hits back at Porsche cheat claim

 

Comments on this story

Displaying 3 of 165 comments

  • I'd say both the GT-R and 911 turbo are both excellent cars. I think the GT-R and turbo have the same engine performance and similar top speed, but the Porsche has better handling. If i had the money, i would buy both of those cars.

    Park Jun Hee of South Korea Posted on 08 July 2010 12:09pm
  • Sportauto (indepedant German car magazine) did a 7:38 min with a stock GT-R and 7:54 min with a stock 997 Turbo. Where's the excuse of Porsche?

    Porschisti of Germany Posted on 22 June 2010 5:38pm
  • Very nice site!

    alexc272 of USA Posted on 08 December 2009 1:00pm
  • only 2o kilos heavier??? well I think GT-R's balance is more optimal then 911 so that is not very strong argument:) in my opinion of course:)))

    O.J of LTU Posted on 14 November 2009 5:50pm
  • Porsche or Nissan they are all good cars, it up to the driver to choose which one to own, people have different tastes and needs, some have different view, like me, i prefer a car that easy to get in and get out, that i can brought my wife in it and wont complain about aircon, or road noise , for me GTR has better value, less price, with good interior, audio, upholstery - for jap standards. Porsche GT2 and GT3 may have spartan interior and race feeling, but honestly if you drive your car for daily commuter, GTR will still be a better choice, GTR could also compete on par with Porsches best with all comfort and luxury intact and almost half the price. If want more, we can always upgrade our GTR easily, there are kits and track packages available in US, Japan and Europe, and this is where GTR excels most - enormous possibility in modifications - want a 700PS or 800PS GTR, easy weesy, just buy a kit for it, try do that on a Porsche or Ferrari or Lamborghini, you will have thousands of thought over lots of dilemma such as price, only a few could afford Gembala, RUF, KOENIG, etc and they still could be beaten on the track by a modded GTR with less than half the price smile

    Lukey Dopey - loves anything with turbos and over of Sydney, Australia Posted on 02 November 2009 3:48pm
  • Ridiculous. The standard tyre on the GTR IS a semi-slick. Stock. I don't know what porsche are complaining about with the tyres, more than likely they are jealous that they have stripped out EVERYTHING of comfort in their GT2 model and their Turbo model is still left wanting whereas the GTR has all the features of a modern car, with all the grunt and better handling than a GT2/Turbo. It's been proven time and again around MANY tracks around the world so far that the GTR is faster car around racetracks, not necessarily the better car FOR the racetrack, but still the faster car. Complain all you want, the proof is already out there.

    Chris of Perth Posted on 29 September 2009 6:12pm
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  • GTR is the better than Porsche, the biggest reason is, I can get to my local bakery one second faster in the GTR than the Porsche, impressive result. Hope this puts all this in perspective.

    larry smith of Mount Olympus Looking Down Posted on 15 November 2008 6:15pm
  • I was at Silverstone for the first day of their "Race Academy". I have had many Porsche - 996 Turbo and 997 Turbo (coupe & cab.). I can therefor compare the cars - unlike most other Pundits!! Belive me, in the real world and for the average skilled driver, the GT-R is so easy to drive fast AND gives confidence so to do. I would have argued with anyone that Porsche/Ferarri brakes are the best - wait till you try the GT-R! The inside is not that bad.

    Tony Heague Posted on 04 November 2008 4:50am
  • *sighs* Hasn't Nissan learned it's lesson yet? every 8 years or so, Nissan releases a 'new' GTR, proclaim it as the world's best sports car, but only have it fade into obscurity time and time again, because it couldn't perform in the real world. And all the while, Porsche and Ferrari continue their dominance decade after decade. Nissan is the boy who has cried wolf far too many times. *sighs*

    jason smyth Posted on 11 October 2008 11:41pm
  • Remember the Honda Legend? Not many years ago, it was the car touted by the Japanese as 'Porsche Killer'. hmm... I wonder what happened to it? smile BTW, how come 'new' Nissan GTR styling looks so 80's? It looks so boxy lol.

    Johnny Tsui Posted on 11 October 2008 11:22pm
  • The Nissan GTR is nothing but another Viper type muscle car with bad handling, and bare-bones interior. I'm sick of these types of cars, they're everywhere it seems. Give me a refined, and civilized Porsche anyday.

    ExNissanFan Posted on 11 October 2008 11:12pm
  • Firstly, the weight argument (how can the GTR be that fast when it's so heavy) is solved because of something called WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION. The transmission is on the rear axle with the engine up the front. There you have a well balanced car. The power dispute (how can it be so fast when it makes the same power as the 911, or, it really makes more power than Nissan claims) is solved because Nissan has developed a drivetrain which only absorbs 10% of the engines power. Therefore those numerous dyno tests of 430hp at the wheels translates into... TADA! 480hp at the flywheel.

    Ben Simson of SA Posted on 11 October 2008 12:21am
  • Having driven most model ranges of the 997 Porsche and 996 Turbo, GT3 and GT2, the GTR is pretty close. Sure the 'Ring laptimes are important but not for mere mortals. These laptimes are important because we need to know the truth. But focusing solely on the laptimes is irrelevant. The GTR is a great car and I am looking forward to owning one sometime in the not-too-distant future. But there truly is no substitute for a Porsche. Feels like a tank inside except for the way it entertains the driver. Why am I not loking forward to own one? Because of the price smile Soon, but a GTR will come before that

    Botchi of Philippines Posted on 07 October 2008 6:19pm
  • If this is true, then why does the GTR spank the Porsche in every other review. QQ Porsche

    Cory of NZ Posted on 07 October 2008 11:18am
  • For those who say Porsche is very expensive being slower than GTR, I would say to them that not only speed costs $$$. Porsches interior is way better that Nissan, better material, better adjustment, better quality. Also beter build quality overall, and more pedigree. A Rolls Royce is expensive, yet slower than a 30000 euros Astra OPC... All counts, not only speed. Be glad and proud of the time test drivers can achieve with your GTRs, because YOU will never be near those times in your life. What if a car is 7 seconds fater or solwer than the other round a 21km track? YOU are way more than 7 secs slower... unless yo are an experienced race driver and knows the ring until the last single bump. At the end, if I had the money, I would prefer the 911 over the Nissan, even only for the psichological satisfaction. And would probably be a Carrera 4S, not Turbo or GT2. Reall you will buy a car just because it is 7 seconds faster on Nurburgring or feel more plnted at 300 km/h? Well, it is to up you, bt there are more things in the equation of owner satisfaction.

    Alex of Spain Posted on 06 October 2008 8:10pm
  • IMO i wouldn't be surprised. It seems to me Porsche have noticed something was amiss and decided seeing as Nissan didn't perform a fair test, they would. Porsche had no reason to cheat - what would they gain? Telling the world that a car that we all knew was realistically faster was - faster? Well we knew that. The skyline is young ricer fool fast, the Porsche is grown up and civilized fast. er.

    Paul Posted on 06 October 2008 1:44am
  • I will admit to being a 'Porsche-a-phile' and have loved them since I first layed eyes on one, and admit that Nissans new GTR is a good car, BUT with close power and weight figures there is no way it could smash the 911's time by so much, it's the general laws of physics that can prove that!!! PLUS this is Germany, Porsches backyard, and they have tested @ Nuremburg for eons, it is great to see someone have the 'cojones' to step up and bring it and Nissan did a good job but anyone well educated in the car industry would tell you that GTR is no 911 killer.

    Nathan of Newcastle Posted on 05 October 2008 10:24am
  • Does anywone of you have a licence? I Have a GT3 and i love it, mayby the gt-r is fast, but how often are you in nurburgring? I have been there couple of times and there is always loads of traffic there. orsche have a motorsport history, eather way you have a 1000 bhp pizza skyline, the worlds top engineers know that the 911 is the best supercar in the world. My brother ordered the new GT-R and im happy for him, he dont like Porsche´s. And the last thing, if a girl ask you what do you drive? Would she go for you if you said a Micra or a Carrera???

    Chante Hovsepian of Sweden Posted on 04 October 2008 5:58am
  • First of all car and driver dynoed the GTR and it made more horsepower then claimed. Second all Nissan GTR's have different power ratings! Third if Porsche bought a US spec car and put German gas in the thing the engine computers will not be optimized for German fuel because it is a completely different blend with different amounts of sulfur, octane ratings and additives! The driver was not as familiar with the GTR and could done the lap different. Was it a standing start? A rolling start? A warm up lap? Who knows!

    Don Haines of New Jersey Posted on 03 October 2008 10:29pm
  • Is Porsche serious? Don't they realise their STOCK tyres on the GT2 and turbos are semi slicks?!! So if Nissan was running semi slicks to attain those times... then the GTR is superior in every respect.

    Hien Nguyen of Melbourne Posted on 03 October 2008 8:45pm
  • Porsche is use to winning. They have made race cars for many years now I don't think the term sore loser fits here unless your a nissan kid fanboy. That hideous fat beasts nurburgring numbers never made any sense and now we know why.

    Stephen Posted on 03 October 2008 2:03pm
  • I have long been a car enthusiats and lucky to have own a few including Ferrari 345, 360, 550 and 430 but lately I have been living with the 997 Turbo for just over a year. I only decided to sell it after I took delivery of my GTR two months ago. I had long been a Ferrari and Porsche fans for decades and still am, but the GTR is really something I could really live and put senses into me. I am a registered Pilot de Ferrari and taken driving courses with Porsche. Frankly both Ferrari 430 and Porsche Turbo are still great cars, especially at the time of launched. Both always scared me at real high speed and curves. But at the same speed on the same route the GTR give me that much confidence over the 430 or the Turbo. The front stay glued to the road no sign of lifting or swaying or lack of steering control. To make a long story short whatever is happening is only natural for all things, like some old proverb that says there will always be the next wave. I am certain Ferrari and Porsche will come back even stronger and better and if we are all lucky at a better prices too. We have paid through our noses for these Italian and German car that we thought it would cost that much to have that kind of performances. But is it true? I am afraid not today...not today...

    Panthep Chamras Posted on 03 October 2008 1:18pm
  • I'm not gonna talk about if Nissan cheats in the Ring. But Porsche made it even worse. Published this information without any solid reference. All we can know about the GTR in the test is: "IT'S A NISSAN GTR" without any other details--what type of fuel? if they tried their best? which type of tire? Nissan said they create 7:29 on DUNLOP one, but the original tire used on premium edition is the Bridgestone one ......................

    pizzaplaza Posted on 03 October 2008 12:16pm
  • theyre only whinging because a car that cost less then half a price of porsche supercar smashed their times on the track. comeon, if you were a supercar designer & engineer, you'd be cut as well!! lol ferrari and the likes are smart and stay on the downlow where as porsche are just a bunch of whingers.

    tim Posted on 03 October 2008 10:47am
  • Firstly, any good tyre manufacturer will attain to the fact that a new tyre is 'green' for a little while and they don't become grippy until they have been worn in a bit. If they tested the GTR with brand new tyres and the Porsche had been flogged for a while, then this could be the answer as to why the Nissan was off the pace. At the end of the day though, in my opinion, the fact that even Porsche have admitted that the gap between both cars with the GTR on new tyres is only 7 seconds over a track the size of the Ring simply cannot justify the exorbitant price of the European badge.

    Corey of Bris Posted on 03 October 2008 7:52am
  • all this bickering,which is better,porsche or nissan, really doesnt matter the viper acr beat them all.This fighting amongst the producers is just the thing us consumers need.In the end we win ,because the cars for the money are getting better and better. let them fight,i can drive a viper for 100. thousand that will beat a lambo for 300 thousand. i just love a competative market

    anthony garcea Posted on 03 October 2008 6:00am
  • end of the day.. porsche have spent the last few decades try to negate the effect of a fundamental design flaw (the engine is in the wrong place) rather than admit it will always be a problem. so while the GTR may be a few kilos heavier its irrelevant if the weights distributed properly and has a chassis to cope. Ive no doubt they are both awesome cars to drive.. and its a good point that the article mentions it was a USA spec car which often means it will be more restricted due to tougher emissions regs).. but anyway in the meantime ill just have to make do with driving my own Nissan.. a REAL Skyline.. which happens to have more power and far less weight than any of these two contenders:p

    RichB of in front of you Posted on 03 October 2008 1:55am
  • it's hard to say.. but i'm definitely think that GT-R is the sh¡t right now. Porsche is old, like when you compare to movie industry is that shooting movie in film is driving Porsche and shooting it in HD is driving GT-R. So Digital HD is faster, cheaper, totally new and can be more creative with it.. unlike driving Porsche.. everything is OEM and there are not many after market toys you can put into it. Same thing when you buy a Mac v.s. PC. Porsche is G5 Mac.. v.s. Soup up PC is GT-R. Anyway, I've heard that the Jap came out with 550 hp version of the GT-R.. that would kill the 911! Cheer to GT-R!! =D

    jay Posted on 03 October 2008 12:23am
  • Please explain how the Gtr is faster around the Nürburgring then an Enzo,when the Enzo has nearly 200 hundred more H.P and weighs 300 kg less? I dont believe nissans time! The Nissan is a great car, but not that great. Something very fishy???

    Ben of melb Posted on 02 October 2008 11:24pm
  • I'm certainly not qualified to categorically state if the GTR is quicker than the GT2, or vice versa, heck, I don't even own a PS3. But consider: Nissan's marketing was centred on the GTR being a Porsche beater. Option 1: It is quicker. Nissan puffs their chest, the fanboys rejoice, and we all drive home in the cars that we can actually afford. Option 2: It wasn't quicker. Let's say Nissan took it to the track and, whoops, it ain't as quick as we thought it would be. Is there any chance at all that they'd release the car without it actually being quicker when that's what the hype was built on? Of course not; the GTR had to beat the Porsche no matter what otherwise Nissan look like idiots. So if they had to diddle the GTR somehow to beat Porsche around the 'Ring you can guarantee that they'd do it. I'm certainly not saying that they *did* diddle the GTR of course. But the fact remains that there's no way Nissan would ever let the GTR rack up a slower lap around the 'ring. Whatever the truth of the matter, both are fine cars and 99.9% of the people reading this stuff will never have the skills to fully exploit them no matter how big a legend in your own lunchbox you think you are.

    Cap'n of Perth Posted on 02 October 2008 6:26pm
  • Nissan have made a lot of claims for the GTR. Then we get a GTR ready to compete in the Targa Tasmania with al the hype and hysteria that have surrounded this car and it didn't last a day because its tyres kept rolling off the rims! So all that Nurburgring testing was for what? Or maybe they did their testing on some tyres that they don't use on the cars they sell? A new GT2 came second outright and it lasted the whole event on one set of tyres.

    Rolf Sidel Posted on 02 October 2008 5:57pm
  • sore losers - the GTR is the new king and porsche know it, this is why 1. Porsche does not make a competitive 4wd system - its just not as good as the GTR's 2. Porsche are scared because the V-spec is coming and its coming hard , 7.20 ? and finally EVERY SINGLE mag and test in the world has said the GTR is way ahead in a league of its own. so whos that idiot that talked of the the italian test - i never heard of it - italians cant drive? p.s. the stig smashed the gtr around the top gear track at a time 2 seconds faster than the nearest porsche.....funny isnt

    Shane of sydney Posted on 02 October 2008 2:54pm
  • Porsche aren't stooping low and are not being sore losers by doing this. Nissan started this between themselves and Porsche in the first place anyway by attacking Porsche with their GTR. Stating performance times against other cars is one thing but to attack another company and constantly parade it is completely different. If Porsche have reason to think the GTRs time is wrong then they have all the rights in the world to attack back.

    the alex of taringa Posted on 02 October 2008 2:38pm
  • I have always been a Porsche and a GTR fan, but I think this has just killed my enthusiasm for Porsche from here onwards. They are lying. I was at the track that day, and the GTR was running the stock tyres. And out of the 30 plus reviews that I have seen comparig the two cars (many from highly respected reviewers) - all have had the GTR coming out on top in almost all situation. And this includes against the GT2. This is very sad Porsche - i think this is just sad. The younger generations do not beleive that the 911 is the ultimate all purpose supercar anymore, and you heritage will soon mean nothing.

    Justin of Perth Posted on 02 October 2008 1:58pm
  • I don't quite know what to make of this. Nissan uses an F1 driver; a race driver who has driven FORMULA1 to do numerous passes of the 'ring in the GTR. Porsche use a chassis engineer. Now, I'm sure the guy is good, but is their chassis engineer as good as or better than a **veteran formula 1 driver**? Why didn't they use their own hotlap racer? I love Porsche, they are my favourite manufacturer, but no honest scientist or engineer can draw solid conclusions from this. Furthermore, there are 'secret' performance options which are unlocked in the GTR menu which are disabled in a stock standard GTR. Everyone knows this; these performance options have been shown to make a massive difference to the 'R in all kinds of independent tests. Did Porsche enable these options? Furthermore, all Japanese cars would be de-tuned for US markets. You can get 100 octane petrol at the pump in Japan; their standard fuel is 98 RON. The best pump gas the US provides is ooooh "V Power!" 92 RON... hand picking a US GTR tuned to run on US pump gas (89-92 RON) is also a factor to consider. Why not get a Japanese GTR tuned for 100 RON? There's just far too much missing information. I can't see how Porsche can categorically write off the 7.29 pass when it's pretty obvious the GTR they chose is most likely not the best example of an R35 GTR.

    Shinsengumi Posted on 02 October 2008 1:05pm
  • regardless of how quick they claim the ugly looking GTR is, it will never be a Porsche. It is good to see Porsche question, some of these claims that the GTR is waving about.

    dave Posted on 02 October 2008 1:02pm
  • Matt Bridge of Dubai. Since you quote youtube in your references for truthness, then maybe you should youtube other videos that directly compare and race the GTR to the 911. How many victories are claimed by the GTR? The fact is, Nissan makes no apologies for developing a car that is BETTER than the 911.. This was their well publicised intention from the start.... and alas, they have done it. Yeh sure Porsche has a better racing pedigree etc etc no one will doubt that, but when we're comparing performance, then GTR>911. The numbers are there, the tests are there and the footage (youtube.. *sigh*) are there!!

    Peter North of Sydney Posted on 02 October 2008 11:52am
  • What a full of whingers. I wonder why old people own Porsche. GTR is for young to middle age. Look at the GTR, its bloody Skyline. It really looks owesome. Can't wait for the GTR V Spec. GTR can beat the crap out of Porsche anytime. Porsche full of loosers. GTR all the way.

    Justin - Bris Posted on 02 October 2008 10:34am
  • i think the biggest missing point is the fact is the car mentioned was purchased in the US & there is great possibility the specs of the car is different to the japanese market ones (which i presume what nissan was using in their tests), and also the fact that there was no mention of how new the car is, whether it has been run in properly.

    Wade Posted on 02 October 2008 8:39am
  • Apparently very few of you have ever driven on a track. One lap is one evaluation, a total race is another. The Nissan is a pig, that was proven last year during the one lap (cannonball run). the PIG had race car drivers and it got smoked by a 996 turbo, viper, Z06 and a 420 hp Cayman until it hit a deer. Tire wear and fuel mileage are paramount in a race, which the Pig is poor in both categories. So Porsche called a pig a pig, every mag has been snowed by its race prepped pig and now the truth finally comes out. The GTR could not hold its own in a race with a basic Carerra s. You guys are pretty much race idiots running your mouths off with emotion instead of what a sports car is designed to do, run more than one lap.

    Tom rensing Posted on 02 October 2008 8:15am
  • Wet track? It was not a wet track the GTR set its legendary time on (watch the video, its on youtube and you obviously do have internet access...), there where some damp patches and in this conditions a semi slick is always faster. If you disagree, pls elaborate on what experience (preferably racing) you base your opinion on. Porsche is not criticising the GTR, just calling for some truth... It seems the GTR aficiandos are a bit touchy, why not just get a 'off-the-line' version and test it against a 'off-the-line' 911 Turbo? Oh, wait you cannot? At least here in Dubai the GTR is more expensive than the Turbo at the moment so the value argument is not applicable...

    Matt Bridge of Dubai Posted on 02 October 2008 6:30am
  • To all playstation GT-R fans I ask you one thing,why does race drivers like Bruno Senna,Petter Solberg and Sébastien Loeb have a Porsche in their garage and not a Nissan.The GT-R 7.38 is possible but not 7.29,What happens next year when Porsche will add a pdk and new engines to its Turbo and GT2? Porsche its an Icon who all manufacturers are mentioning when they try explain how good their new models is,why? If Nissan claims 7,10 around the ring next week would you belive it?Maybe stop eat all raw,and try get some meat on the bone before you coment anything,..

    Morten K.J Posted on 02 October 2008 5:20am
  • Physics including, drag coefficient, tire grip, gearing, dimensions of the car. Make the faster times impossible without the help of a racing slick, full race tune, and possible hard parts(IE engine performance parts or suspension mods) Not to mention the fact that all the showroom models have not measure up to the test mules as far as performance figures. I really like the GTR but unless the japanese have figured out how to alter the laws of physics you just can't argue with the laws of physics.

    woohoo Posted on 02 October 2008 4:58am
  • For as long as the GTR has been out, I wonder why this is still an issue of uncertainty? Have there not been independent tests of the GTR on the Nurburgring yet? Porsche claims may very well be true, but I also have a hard time believing that if Nissan did in fact 'fudge' their times a bit, that it would just be uncovered after all this time has passed.

    J.R. Bernard Posted on 02 October 2008 2:11am
  • How much does the Porsche cost? How much does the Nissan cost? Face it Porsche you have been beat!!!!

    Tony Posted on 02 October 2008 1:31am
  • Can't wait for my GTR to get here and then run into a 911 driver. Yeeeee Ha!!!

    JB of Melbourne Posted on 02 October 2008 12:52am
  • it's all bullshit, how can a chassis development engineer with no name. could drive as fast as, Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, the times they quoted for the Porsche's are there offical times quoted by the factory and the cars are drivien by Walter Rohrl .So why do they need Walter Rohrl if any person can match his times. bring on GTR V spec ps porsche are unrealible on the road let alone on a track

    joe of melb Posted on 01 October 2008 11:21pm
  • Gentlemen and ladies can anyone tell me who the winningest manufacturer in sports car racing is? anyone? its not Nissan thats for sure, we'll see how well the GT-R does at this years 24 hour of Le Mans

    justin Posted on 01 October 2008 10:39pm
  • I have never seen a company do this. Porsche doesn't need to do this, as their market is totally different to the GTR's market, so it's just over bragging rights. Every report I have read has spoken of the GTR in glowing terms. Its cheaper and doesn't attract the level of distain that any Porsche does. Guess it must reflect the type of people that drive each vehicle...and obviously now, the companies that build them!

    Mark Posted on 01 October 2008 10:35pm
  • The GT-R weighs 155kg more than the Porsche Turbo.

    jmac Posted on 01 October 2008 8:57pm
  • hehe porsche is fantastic manufacturer and a league of its own but the recent GTR is awe inspiring at close to 300 thousand for a decent GT3 or around 65 thousand for a jap imported GTR which has more bang for your bucks? throw around another 50 grand in mods and you will have a 1200 HP plus formidable weapon of mass destruction - it has style and race feel and definately performance as well - the ring is a test of skill , the gtr offers a daily drive reliability and race track performance if required - porsches are not designed in this manner they are purely as toys for the rich and famous lol

    oma of melbourne aust Posted on 01 October 2008 8:10pm
  • Nissan Answers Porsche: Did you toggle those three little switches to 'R'?

    Bobby of wheelsweekly blogspot com Posted on 01 October 2008 7:30pm
  • I dont think Porsche was stating its impossible for the GT-R to be quicker only because of its weight disadvantage. Porsche was stating the reason for the testing is because of their "concerns" of possible false lap times.

    Shoe Posted on 01 October 2008 7:28pm
  • the funny thing about this is that the michelin pilot sport cup tyres fitted to the 911 GT2 are R compound semi slicks. and the bridgestone potenza RE070 fitted to the GTR are also R compound semi slicks! so what are porsche whining about!!!

    Jimmyd Posted on 01 October 2008 6:49pm
  • lets see the boys from top gear put the "Stig" behind the wheel of both cars on the same day on the same track and then make up our minds on which is the best. Cant blame Porsche for complaining they have a race born reputation to protect. it's a bit like Holden putting out public media saying " we tested the comodore at Monza and it's quicker than the Ferrari or Lamborgini" what you don't think the Italians would test out that claim and publically denote them?

    steve Posted on 01 October 2008 6:41pm
  • How disgraceful are porsche. Bunch of sore losers HARD. That's is embarassing on porsche's behalf. I'm buying a GTR.

    Barry Posted on 01 October 2008 5:58pm
  • teh GTR nevar losesss!!1 =)

    Quentin Mui of Sydney Posted on 01 October 2008 5:14pm
  • 20kg heavier? Oh that explains everything...Not. Put more of less fuel in and you can change the weight more than that! Porsche's previous claim to fame is our cars are faster but not cheap. So now other manufacturers have nothing to loose and everything to gain. Porsche had better rethink there game plan or risk loosing huge market share in years to come. The Cayman is a good example, where they make a good car but decided not to make it too good else risk loosing 911 market share! Well that the least of their worry's now.

    Porsche driver of Aust Posted on 01 October 2008 4:14pm
  • I can't believe everyone sprouting "its physics" to suggest the GTR can't be quicker around a track than the Porsche simply because the Porsche has a slightly higher power to weight ratio. Obviously doing a good lap time on any track comes down to more than just power, with the handling and braking characteristics of a vehicle contributing signifcantly to the times it can achieve. Take a 1964 Ford Cortina, shoehorn some wild engine into it so that it has the same power output as the Porsche but weighs less, put slicks on it, and see if it does a quicker time around the Ring. I doubt it. Why discredit the GTR just because it is heavier than the Porsche?

    Rob of Perth WA Posted on 01 October 2008 3:24pm
  • 20kg? So what? Porsche took a car with the engine & transmission - the two heaviest parts of the vehicle - and have spent the last 40+ years and considerable deutchmarks engineering it into a sensational chassis. Imagine if you put all the heavy bits back inside the wheelbase and then engineered the chassis to the same extent??? I'm the first to admit that the 911 is a formidable weapon, but to say that the GTR beating the 911 is beyond the laws of physics - for a weight penalty of 20 kg is a blinkered ignorant attitude.

    Wayne of Perth Western Australia Posted on 01 October 2008 3:13pm
  • GTR fanboies keep claiming that GTR beats Porsche in every single comparison test around the world... but it WAS WRONG!! Italian magazine Quattroruote group test 430SCud, LP560-4, 997GT2 and GTR and invited FOUR TIMES F1 World Champion Alain Prost to test them. Result? GTR come last and losing to the GT2 more than 2 seconds per lap in an little Italian handling track called Vairaro(Yes not as famous the Ring for sure)

    A. Chang Posted on 01 October 2008 1:59pm
  • hahaha - i couldn't believe high and mighty porsche would stoop this low to discredit the GTR ...honestly i don't (i would like to believe that the Porsche Automotive Management Group has nothing to do with this) it's their car and chassis engineering and development team - that has borne the brunt of an over-achieving GTR - that's been having nightmares and couldn't take another day of BASHING! NOPE! Not from the TOP Porsche brass - unbelievable

    kevin duncan of germany Posted on 01 October 2008 1:41pm
  • Of course Porsche will contest the figures. That also means that every major motoring publication in the world and every credible driver and writer who has pitted the Porsche against the GT-R are idiots. Talk about Aryan Supremacy. I believe the GT-R ran and produced the lap-times it mentioned even if it was not a head to head. It is easy to back off for the GT-R if they didn't have an unbiased driver. C'mon you Porsche people. And even if the GT-R is 20 kilos heavier your Porsche it a much better package per dollar. What's more the car could not have run slicks. If you saw the video they had in the Tokyo Motor Show the track was damp or even wet in some places. So what gives?

    Rayme Bautista of Manila Posted on 01 October 2008 1:29pm
  • Porsche should stop criticising the GTR, and focus on researching how to improve their own cars. It seems that the GTR outperforms the Porsche in every aspect, except maybe aesthetically. At the end of the day they are two different cars appealing to two different markets. A porsche will always appeal to the insecure, older, and wealthier business man due to the prestige of the name - they take you on an journey when you go to buy one and enter you into the Porsche club. Its crap IMO. Whereas a GTR, is an engineering marvel ahead of its time and pushing the boundaries of physics consistently. GTR drivers seldom care about their image and are passionate about motorsport. Porsche shouldn't adopt these childish 'Nissan is cheating' tactics, instead embrace its competition and try to learn from them.

    Anonymous of Melb Posted on 01 October 2008 12:59pm
  • Anybody's wondering what real regular Porsche tyres are? Michelin cup? ok sound "r" compound to me. Put thoses on the GTR for comparaison.

    Paul of Montreal Posted on 01 October 2008 12:41pm
  • porsche got their a55es handed to them on a platter.. bunch of german whingers.. haha

    tim Posted on 01 October 2008 12:22pm
  • id take a gtr anyday over a porsche. every old man has a porsche.

    anonymous of georgia Posted on 01 October 2008 10:52am
  • HH: by the way, Japan is one of the very top countries in education and engineering in the world. But I'm sure you're right though. LOL!

    Total BS Posted on 01 October 2008 9:44am
  • HH: Yeah, I think that's the only thing the Japanese are good at. (sarcasm) LOL!

    Total BS Posted on 01 October 2008 9:42am
  • What about all of the INDEPENDENT tests from automotive magazines and sources from Europe, Asia, and America in which the GT-R has always beaten the 911 turbo on the tracks? Are we to ignore all of them? LOL!

    Total BS Posted on 01 October 2008 9:40am
  • lol at the Porsche boys. It kinda sucks to pay triple the price and still have your ar$e handed to you, doesn't it? Test after test after test after test, has shown that the GTR is a quicker car around the track than the 911 twin turbo. Not just around the ring, but around many tracks all over the world. A better built car, I'm not so sure, but a quicker car. I think so. It's all right gents, dry your eyes. The fact that you have the money to buy your over priced slow, but nicely badged cars, means that you have plenty in the bank to buy a true sports car such as the GTR and have it hidden in your garages. I won't tell, it can be our dirty little secret. grin

    Bobby of Sydney Posted on 01 October 2008 9:04am
  • Someone other than a car manufacturer needs to do independent testing. That will end all the BS that flies around. Get a slew of cars together on the same day - Z06, ZR1, GTR, GTR V Spec, 911 Turbo, GT2, Viper ACR, etc. They should all be on the factory tires, and then another run done with performance tires.

    nate Posted on 01 October 2008 8:46am
  • Although I am a Porsche man and would take Turbo over GTR, Porsches responce is rediculous! Just like Sam said - last year Nissan broke the record on partial wet condition, and whole track was damp, so semi-sliks would be ruled out. That day it ran 7:38. This year it ran even faster. It is better build than Turbo, and with greater care and tech. Fact! Can corner more violently and faster, not to mention, accelerate faster. GTR is just better and faster car. Sorry Porsche, but your GT2 is just to much show for the money, let alone Carrera GT. BUT: BRING BACK 928!!! V8 TT FR layout, make it as fast as GT2, for a price of basic 911 Carrera. IT IS POSSIBLE, just DO IT!

    Nevan Posted on 01 October 2008 8:38am
  • LOL @ the GT-R fanboys below. Get over it.

    Anonymous Posted on 01 October 2008 8:21am
  • I think Porsche is calling it as they see it, it's painfully obvious that Nissan brought a couple of ringers to the party. Those who believe that the GTR is God's chariot need to put the PS3 controllers down & step away. In the real world with real cars, real conditions, and real tires the GTR doesn't fare so well against the competition. Notice no one is calling the ZR-1 a cheater.

    Aaron Posted on 01 October 2008 8:20am
  • The Stig's performance drives on the 1st episode of Top Gear Australia had the Nissan GTR quicker than the Porsche. Not sure which Porsche variant it was, except that it had the new PDK double clutch. Anyway different drivers and tracks, same result.

    Bruce Minchinton of Sydney Posted on 01 October 2008 8:11am
  • I think they both tested gtr and porsche 911 tt and gt3 at the same track or even give the porsche a head start and still manage to beat both cars. you know what go back to drawing board and improve it, besides cars too old in my opinion...

    noel pogi Posted on 01 October 2008 7:30am
  • I would rather drive a Reliant Robin that any Japanese car. Soulless and two a penny. The only thing the Japanese are good at is ripping off other cars. Pumped up plastic with wheels. There's more character in a box of Kellogg's Special K. They will never achieve the status of Porsche end of. Half the price of a 911 so what??Well lets see, yes I think I'll trade in my GT2 for a Skyline....

    HH Posted on 01 October 2008 7:12am
  • wht if GT-R really cheated?

    Nishu PTG Posted on 01 October 2008 6:31am
  • Who cares? The Viper ACR with half a day on the track without factory support KILLED everybody at 7:22. Ouch!

    jl Posted on 01 October 2008 6:26am
  • I think there is a typo - the Nissan is around 150 kgs heavier. The Porsche numbers are credible given the similar power outputs of the cars.

    Bob S. of Sydney Posted on 01 October 2008 6:16am
  • soz and the porsche how can explain the video of the time attack which GTR makes time 7:29......porsche can not accept the defeat!

    dimitris nismo Posted on 01 October 2008 6:12am
  • Haha. When you can't beat them, try too make them look bad. Like an american election...

    John Posted on 01 October 2008 6:05am
  • "He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki" "The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers" So the original GTR time was made by an ex-Forumula One driver and the second by a Porche chassis engineer... One races cars for a living, the other designs cars for a living. Wow, way to keep consistency there Porche. Fail.

    Kris of Brisbane Posted on 01 October 2008 5:54am
  • They always run production tires that come on the car for these tests. So Porsche does have a right to prove that the GT-R numbers are false, as they just did. However I think the best test would be to run the same tires on both cars, this way your getting rid of the tire variable.

    Kevin Posted on 01 October 2008 5:08am
  • All the electronic nannies and computors in the world can't help the GTR break the laws of physics. It's a great car, especially for the money, but most all of it's numbers don't add up.

    Oliver of VT Posted on 01 October 2008 5:03am
  • If Nissan did on fact swap tires, that would be bad news for them (Nissan). The GT-R is one hell of a car, as well as the Porsche Turbo. I think any manufactuer that claims fast Nurburgring times, should have a battle date, where all the manufactuers get together at the 'Ring and just run times. And I think each manufactuer should be able to check out eveyone's cars.

    Joe Schmoe of S FL Posted on 01 October 2008 4:25am
  • The R35 GTR has been tested on many other tracks, consistently beating the 911 Turbo on numerous types of tracks. It's a bit late to pretend that the GTR is a false car after they release it to the public and the public reproduces Nissan's claims. This porsche guy must be like a Cigarette company rep - smoking doesn't cause cancer, but the GTR does, our tests proved it!

    Micheal Clark Posted on 01 October 2008 2:48am
  • If the OEM code is broken to attempt a record run, where is the integrity in Nissan's testing procedures? All manufacturers must compete with a car that is readily available to the public, and not a ringer for special purposes.

    John Posted on 01 October 2008 1:50am
  • Was there ever any doubt that Nissan cheated at the Ring to achieve the numbers they did? I'm glad other manufactures are testing different cars - it will keep everyone honest.

    Spoke Adams of San Jose, CA Posted on 01 October 2008 1:41am
  • Sounds like a bunch of GTR fanbois crying over the plastic fantasic rice rocket may not be all that it is cracked up to be without cheating. Get a third party to test with street tires before you call Porche wrong.

    GTORA2 of Fremont C A Posted on 01 October 2008 1:24am
  • Remember a story about the Skyline GTR R33 when every version tested by car magazine and the nurburgring time was great; and then Top gear buy a version from a dealer and was unable to do any claim record by Nissan. History is always the same, Nissan is a well know lier and i'm pretty sure the record is done by a V-spec highly tuned.

    French guy Posted on 01 October 2008 1:11am
  • I disagree with you guys attacking Porsche, IF this is true Nissan has a problem, IF it is not true Porsche has a problem. GTR seems to defeat physics, a heavy car with less HP, doing better lap times than Carerra GT ? Always thought it was funny Rune

    Rune Ydstebo of Norway Posted on 01 October 2008 12:59am
  • It's called _Nürburgring_ and Walter _Röhrl_. You might not imagine it, but these are different names. It's like thinking President Push and President Bush are the same thing.

    Fritz!!! of Germäny Posted on 01 October 2008 12:56am
  • hahahahhahah

    what Posted on 01 October 2008 12:55am
  • this is ridiculous - semi slicks when some part of the track is wet would done nothing to the time... IMO Porsche should stop things like these and start worrying about their cars, not cars of other companies.. time attack of GT-R is a FACT and Porsche can do nothing about it, just get more and more scared with the coming of a V-Spec version, which will rock the Nur once again.

    JDMsan of Poland Posted on 01 October 2008 12:49am
  • Was there ever any doubt that Nissan cheated at the Ring to achieve the numbers they did? I'm glad other manufactures are testing different cars - it will keep everyone honest.

    Spoke Adams of San Jose, CA Posted on 01 October 2008 12:43am

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