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Harsh penalties for new drivers

  • By Ashlee Pleffer
  • The Daily Telegraph

New laws have come into force in New South Wales, placing further restrictions on L and P-Plate drivers.

Many concerned readers have responded to this story already. Click here to view the latest comments.

The Roads and Traffic Authority (RTA) believes the changes will encourage greater road safety awareness among young drivers, those affected aren't completely in agreement. According to RTA statistics, young drivers represent 13 per cent of licensed drivers, yet they are involved in 26 per cent of all fatal crashes.

Under the new laws, which came into force recently, first-year P-platers will lose four points off their license if caught speeding. This ultimately means P1 drivers will lose their license if they speed in any way.

Another strict change will have P1 drivers losing three points if caught driving with more than one passenger under 21 between the hours of 11pm and 5am. This rule applies to all red P-plate drivers under 25 years of age.

Mobile phones will be completely banned while driving, taking away the option of hands-free and loudspeaker use. And L-plates and P-plates must be displayed outside the vehicle, meaning they are no longer allowed to sit inside the windscreen. Fines apply to all these infringements.

RTA road safety general manager, Dr Soames Job, says the new rules will encourage safer driving practices among new drivers.

“In broad terms, we're hoping to achieve a reduction in the road trauma, which is happening to, and being caused by, young drivers. We hope to do that by changing their behaviour,” he says.

Dr Job says advanced driver training courses aren't the solution as they can encourage young people to become overconfident in their abilities.

He says until the skill of driving has been mastered and is automatic, other factors are more likely to affect the driver.

“These problems aren't because of a lack of car-handling skills, they are a lack of judgement and a lack of caution,” he says.

Dr Job says P1 drivers account for about 7 per cent of licensed drivers, yet constitute 41per cent of infringements for driving 45km or more above the speed limit.

“I think that's really a damning statistic for young drivers,” he says.

“What we're saying is we're giving you a motivation not to take risks, or there's going to be a penalty.”

And while P1 drivers will be able to apply for an exemption for the extra passenger rule between 11pm and 5am for work and other commitments. Dr Job says this won't necessarily apply for driving people to and from work.

“The evidence says P1 drivers are more likely to have a serious crash when they have passengers on board,” he says.

“We will still have crashes, but I think these rules will reduce the number of severe and fatal crashes happening with provisional drivers.”

But it seems L-Plate and P-plate drivers don't altogether agree. The new laws will directly affect Sydney teenager Natasha Karagounis will be directly affected by the new laws, having obtained her license just three weeks ago. The 19-year-old says she was initially excited when getting her license, but was not very happy to learn about the new rules.

Karagounis says not all P-platers are bad drivers and they shouldn't be restricted because of the actions of others. “I have never had any problems at all, I think it's unfair some of us get stereotyped. There are these new rules for us when we've done nothing wrong,” she says.

As an older red P-plate driver, she is particularly annoyed about only being able to carry one passenger after 11pm.

“I go out a lot with friends, usually between 11pm and 5am,” she says. “Now I can only have one passenger.”

Karagounis often heads into the city and says she and her friends usually take it in turns to be designated driver. But not any more.

“We'll have to either get a train or taxi or everyone will have to drive now. It's really inconvenient,” she says. “Taxis cost a lot and trains stop at 2am, we'll have to wait until 5am.”

Karagounis says authorities shouldn't be targeting just P-platers and that some of the laws should be mandatory for everyone, such as a complete ban on mobile phones.

The university student also believes that losing your license for speeding is too strict.

“If you're not speeding a lot, like 5km over, I think it's a bit unfair to lose your license rather than lose just three points,” she says.

L-platers will also be affected by the changes. The compulsory 50 hours on-road experience will jump to 120 hours for anyone getting their license from this Sunday.

Dr Job says evidence shows the extra experience plays a big role in making young drivers more aware of what can go wrong and anticipating other drivers' behaviour.

Learner driver Paul Zergara is pleased he got his permit before the new laws apply. Over the past five months, he's clocked up 20 hours, mainly with a professional instructor. “My parents encourage me not to go with them, I think they're scared of me driving,” he says.

The 18-year-old says he feels sorry for new learners who will have to do the extra hours, especially those who will have to pay a professional instructor.

And he isn't looking forward to the extra restrictions once getting his provisional license.

Like Karagounis, he is concerned about only being able to drive one person after 11pm, especially with his youth group commitments, which would have had him driving other people home after 11pm. “I think it's unfair, it seems a bit stereotypical categorising all people as dangerous and bad,” he says.

While Zergara doesn't condone speeding, he thinks losing your license for the offence is a little harsh. And despite his disagreement with the new laws, he admits they will make him more cautious on the road. Both of the new drivers believe changing the laws seems like a quick fix and Zergara says he would like to see more education introduced.

“There should be more training, better understanding on how the car actually works, the test isn't really enough,” he says.

Meanwhile, the Monash University Accident Research Centre this week launched a campaign encouraging parents to become more involved with their children's driving.

They suggest parents sign a Vehicle Access Agreement with their child.

This formal agreement should place further conditions and restrictions on the young driver for the first 12 months of the P-plate period, limiting the time a young person can drive and the number of passengers they carry.


The new rules

Speeding

License suspension for any speeding offence for P1 car drivers and provisional motorbike riders. The penalty is a minimum of four demerit points and license suspended for at least three months. A fine also applies.

 

Mobile phones

A ban on all mobile phone use for learner, P1 car drivers and provisional motorbike riders. The penalty is three demerit points and a fine (or four demerit points if in a school zone). A fine also applies.

 

Curfew

P1 drivers under 25 must not drive between 11pm and 5am with more than one passenger under the age of 21. The penalty is three demerit points and a fine. Drivers can apply for an exemption if they drive a car with passengers at work, but not necessarily for getting to and from work.

 

Plate display

L- or P-plates may no longer be displayed from inside your vehicle. You must clearly display L- and P-plates on the front and back of the outside of the vehicle. The penalty is two demerit points and a fine.

 

Learners

Learner drivers getting a permit on or after July 1, 2007, will need to hold the permit for a minimum of 12 months and complete at least 120 hours of supervised driving (including 20 hours of night driving) before they can apply for their P1 license.

 

Comments on this story

Displaying 3 of 122 comments

  • I had my learner's licence for near on four years and accumilated many hours of experience, without my partner fudging my log book and what not, i think that i am luck to have had the experience of all types of weather conditions, my toddler in the back seat, and knowing when to pull over, shut the car off, and ensure everything is ok. I personally think, that being 21, and being a mum has taught me valuable lessons. I know not to sit up a trucks butt, he cant see me unless i can see him. You DONT sit next to the truck to cut him off, or overtake. In wet weather its safer to do 10k's under the speed limit, because with rain it takes longer to stop, and visibility is poor. I think the age for a person to get their provisionals should be increased, let people learn to drive at a young age, but dont let them hoon around... be smart, let them learn some responsibilities first, like what its like to have committments..... then give them a car, and licence.

    Toni Evans Posted on 05 November 2007 9:47am
  • i've had my p's for nearly 4 months now and recieved a speeding fine the other day for $1000. i was shock and terrified. i was going 91 in a 40 zone. Ok sounds bad but this speed camera was located on the other side of the hill and the limit normally being 80. I will be loosing my liscense soon because of being over 45km and has destroyed my chance of getting into the police force which has been my long time dream. Now facing depression and the fact i will have to quit my job because i can't get there anymore. im not a bad person! just a getting new to this driving thing like everyone did

    Gareth Posted on 12 September 2007 10:07am
  • i found it very interesting to read this article and the comments of people responding to it, thankyou so much everyone, you have all unconciously helped me with my major personal interest project which i am doing on adolescence and stereotypes involved with it, such as young drivers! a large part of it concerned people's opinions and ideas, so thankyou very much!

    Sonia Carpenter Posted on 06 September 2007 4:01pm
  • If i was someone who had to follow these rules i wouldnt drive at all... Way to scary to think if you go a lil over the speed limit you can loose you licence! I dont speed but sometimes it just happens and noone can say they never have!

    jade Posted on 29 August 2007 9:36am
  • I just got My L-plates, and luckily for me i got in before July 1st so the new 120hours and holding the permit for 12months does not apply to me. But i am dissapointed because i think these new rules a bit harsh. In saying that i know that these rules have been put in place for a reason, simply for our personal safety, but really as much i dont condone hooning and racing ect. you do drive at your own risk. And i think it is unfair to those who do drive responsibly, why should they be punished. The knew rules are an inconvienience, they make it very hard for us young adults to get around, and we do want to help out our friends so by only allowing one passenger during the time wen we are most likely to drive with a crowd is inconvienient, and frustrating. Where does that leave us? having to rely on public transport, taxi's which are expensive and once again our poor parents who have probably been driving us around for 16-17 years. It limits our independence yet again. My parents are all for these knew rules but i wish they would consider if they would be happy if these rules applied to them wen they where my age. i would think not.

    Jade Kettle Posted on 06 August 2007 4:43pm
  • I absolutely agree with the vast majority of the new rules, and judging by the petty and self-centered excuses put up by a number of the affected drivers I'm even more convinced they are the way to go. However, I do sympathize with the driver in the story with the selfish parents that wont let him drive with them - but thankfully he is in the minority. My 16yo has had her learner permit 6 weeks and has logged (not mandatory) nearly 20 hours already. She considers the new P laws (which will affect her) to be fair enough - a stepping stone to a full licence. Over 25's are less *immature* than a 18 or 20 year old - it's as simple as that - pure fact. I know - I've attended more serious/fatal accidents involving young P platers, who think they know it all, than I care to think about - if the new rules reduce these I (and everyone else involved in emergency services) will be more than happy. If you don't like the rules - tough - suck it in and get over it, the restricted period will pass quite quickly.

    Ross Posted on 17 July 2007 9:23am
  • Janette Litterbach - thankgod someone has a brain. you have a good strong arguemnet. and atleast someone knows how i'll feel when this takes effect to me in september when i get my L's

    Natasha Posted on 16 July 2007 9:46am
  • Janette Litterbach - thankgod someone has a brain. you have a good strong arguemnet. and atleast someone knows how i'll feel when this takes effect to me in september when i get my L's

    Natasha Posted on 16 July 2007 9:46am
  • does anyone no the car restrictions

    cameron Posted on 16 July 2007 9:27am
  • do these rules apply to qld or just nsw?? im curious cause im 16 and buying a v8

    matthew portelli Posted on 13 July 2007 12:45pm
  • i have a couple of things to say,(1) how does displaying ur P's outside the car save lives,inside the car is just as good as the outside of a car,(2) and also if there is a law for all RED P platers it should go across the board, not just an age thing,so if u are driving on Red P's and are 25 or older u should not be able to have any young kids in the car either,(age does not always mean MATURE)so, then lets see how many older Red P platers think the new RTA / POLICE Laws are fair,.then a RED P plater with the family of 4 that are 27 or older will not be able to leave home between the hrs of 11pm and 5 am to go on holidays.(cause the driver might/will argue with the kids)so that means lack of concentration,.so there is really no difference between a 18 year old driver and a 27 year old driver.plus there are young familys out there,that rely on the siblings for lifts to and from parties or outings after the hrs of 11pm.so in other words the RTA really need to revist what really is the cause of accidents.instead of knee jerking.

    john Posted on 12 July 2007 10:31am
  • I have three childred 1 oh P's and 1on L's. My L plate driver has been booked under the new Victorian hoon law so I know he is no angle, but when it come to a Saturday night, he and his fully licenced co driver will shuffle other teenager to and from a party all night because he loves driving and might I add is very good, to help out so other teenagers can go to a party and not have to worry about driving. We live in a countyr area so a taxi fare is out of the question. My P plater will also participate with the friends taking in turn of whose night it is to stay sober and drive. With the passenger restriction law all this will be a thing of the past. I would like to know how many older drivers can see as well as a P Plater after 11pm and I bet the answer will be not many. Our society is certainly changing and our freedom is also changing. For all you older people out there who think this is a good idea, sit back and think would you have thought the same thing if it affected you when you were 18. I know I don't agree with it now and I certainly would not have agreed with this rule way back when I was 18.

    Janette Litterbach Posted on 12 July 2007 10:31am
  • As a professional driver I hate to say it but I agree with the majority of new rulings. The curfew, well if a driver over the age of say 25 is present and SOBER, perhaps that can be made slightly more lenient, however having spent most of my time, driving at night with my job, the number of near misses I have had (and not due to the supposed skills of the provisional drivers) is terrifying. I do not agree with enforcement of driving schools as suggested simply because as it stands, we would end up with a similar sad happenstance as often happens in many European countrys where people simply cannot afford their licences until older. Personally 120 supervised hours, yes... Speed and lose your license... Yes. Use you mobile phone as a learner or provisional.. Yes. Why, well end of the day, until a driver is completely used to the reflex of watching where they are going and for hazards then speed and anything that takes your mind off the road is dangerous. Bottom line People learning can not have enough practice, The average teen has a greater opinion of their skills then is realistic (males in particular) and too many people are dying on the road.

    Scott G Posted on 11 July 2007 10:06am
  • To be honest i have to agree some of the new rules are a bit strict but in that respect it's because of too many young drivers getting into major accidents and being stupid on the roads like speeding doing over the speed limit some going up to and over the 110KM/h up to 130KM/h plus so it makes sense that if you are that stupid you should lose your P's. I'm glad that i am already on my P's as of March this year and only having to hold it for a year being 24 years old and turning 25 soon. Here in QLD there are new rules for QLD Learners and Provisional drivers so we are not better off up here either im glad that i don't have to abide by the new rules but if i had too i have too simple fact that is. If i were to renew my Provisional License next year after being on it for 1 year i would then be put onto the new laws up here in QLD but im glad as of March 08 ill be on my Opens. It's hard to be under the new law's for people who respect the road but for those who are going to act like idiots then the new law's are fare to apply to them. Simple fact of the matter is the more your learn the better you become learn stupidly and you will learn how to get your license suspended quicker.

    James Groom Posted on 11 July 2007 10:06am
  • Carsguide you have a lot to answer for in printing some of the lies and crap that has been mentioned.

    Leo Posted on 11 July 2007 10:06am
  • I agree with "Tony" that these new restrictions are "knee jerks". I have been a professional driver for over 20 years and have successfully taught seven people to drive without the use of a Driving School instructor. None of those I have taught have incurred any penalties whilst on their "P's" or afterwards. I feel the reason for this is that I drummed into them the importance of obeying the road rules! Too many learner drivers are only taught enough to pass their driving test and are not taught any "roadcraft". How many fully-licenced drivers do you see: darting in front of a heavy vehicle whose driver has left space to brake safely?; leaving it to the last second to jam on their brakes when approaching a long queue of traffic?; accelerating just so they can be in front in the "Form One Lane" area?; not anticipating that they will have to change lanes to get around that slow moving tractor up ahead?...the list goes on. I don't think that licence suspension is going to be the answer to speeding. The use of mobile phones by ALL drivers should be addressed more vigilantly by the police. I do not agree with the curfew and passenger limit. L & P plates which are displayed outside the car GET STOLEN (personal experience!)! I do agree with the 12 month learners permit timeframe. Learners must experience as many of the different types of driving conditions as possible (including highway driving) before obtaining their P plates.

    Neil Currie Posted on 10 July 2007 9:46am
  • i jus got my red p's and i think these rules are absolute crap soon the rta is going to tell us wich brand of car we can drive and wat we cant i mean i drive much better than many full plate drivers honestly who on the full licence checks there blind spots i bet each of us's 50 bucks that if all the full plate drivers went 4 a practical test 8 of 10 of them would fail coz they think im a full licenced driver so im perfect 8 of 10 full licenced drivers dont even know the proper rules of round abouts and bus lanes my parents dont this is just a scam from the rta to make more money as if there not making enough money as it is where are the cops when there is roberys and stabbings or when a person is driving dangerously ill tell u where to busy making themselvs money by selling up speed cameras behing bushes and no signs so we dont know there and cant see them till where past them another way to make money good onya rta wats next

    nicholas mirabito Posted on 10 July 2007 9:46am
  • this is boring i think that the new laws are shit coz it is lol

    leslie :P Posted on 10 July 2007 9:46am
  • this is boring i think that the new laws are shit coz it is lol

    leslie :P Posted on 10 July 2007 9:46am
  • I completely agree with the new rules. In fact Im stil waiting for the RTA to get off their backsides and limits the vehicles that P plate drivers are able to drive. I am only 25 years of age, and have already seen too many of my friends either killed and or in major accidents because of a number of factors relating to overpowered cars and overconfidence that us blokes demonstrate behind the wheel. Dont think that because I support the new rules the RTA has brought in, means I support them in all they do. I believe that they have dropped the ball significantly for drivers in NSW in many areas, especially in the poor road conditions in this state (no matter how much the RTA argues that NSW roads are on par with other states, this is no excuse for not taking responsibilty of putting safety first). But the new rules that the RTA have brought in will FINALLY underline to young drivers that 'driving is NOT a right, its a privilage' so treat other road users and the general public with that attitude. Enjoy your cars, enjoy driving, but no matter the experince or skill of a driver any car can go from being an enjoyable machine to a dangerous weapon in fractions of a second. My only concern with these new rules is that there is not enough police to begin with, let alone enough to effectively police the rules that have just been introduced. Oh by the way RTA I said POLICE not bloody speed camera's!

    Jasen Brooks Posted on 09 July 2007 7:01pm
  • I am a Learner driver and recently got my L's a week ago and i think that they brought the learner Law in at the most rediculous time ever. My birthday is at the beggining of the year in January and i was just short of turning 16 and 6mnths when the new law came in. therefore i now have to hold my Learners for a year so by the time i have held my learners for the time requireded (1yr) i will be 17 and 6mnths nearly which is totally unfair to me as my friends and peers who are younger than me (some by 6months) get there P's the same time as me! I think is totally unfair hey.

    Carlie Majoe Posted on 09 July 2007 7:01pm
  • I have been a driver for 30 years...and disagree with all these knee jerks and their reactions to an issue that has been overtaken by politicians with no real interest in the automotive areana, other than how to scam some more funds for their super plan. In my employment i am subject to various Duty of Care policies that often require my employer to provide extra training to employees even for some of the most basic of tasks, yet we oldies refute the requirement of adequate training for our young. Imgine sending out someone to drive a haul pack (which are as light in controls as any Hyundai), with out proper training, yet we give our kids training design directly to get a licences but not actually how to drive and control a moving mass of 1000Kg. The kids aren't stupid, but we Mums and dads should stand up and be counted for not insuring driver ed includes as much advanced driver training as possible...trouble is it costs money, and would reduce the fine take, and be more likely to save lives, than any cash camera could ever do (considering they do nothing now...) Ask the question... What would you rather... My kids able to controll a moving mass in a number of situations and speeds to minimise damage? My kids unable to controll a moving mass in a number of situations and speeds to minimise damage, and an infringment notice sent through the mail for having 2 passengers in a moving vehicle? Personnaly, I would rather give mine a fighting chance at survival (and have paid tuition for advanced training for my son), than offer no hope at all. Tony

    Tony Posted on 09 July 2007 7:01pm
  • I'm on my red P's, 27 years old and have two children. I think the new rules are fantastic, it's about time! I have no problems with the tougher rules. The way I see it, if you don't break the law you have nothing to worry about! You shouldnt be speeding anyway whether you lose 1 point or the lot. The other rules are fair enough too. Though I think L platers should have to do not only 120 hours of supervised driving, but also included in that a set amount of lessons from a professional RTA approved instructor. These instructors are usually alot more up to date with the current rules which are often changing, and also would be great proof that the learner is getting all the information needed.

    Mel Posted on 09 July 2007 7:01pm
  • These new laws are not going to solve any problems at all. The limiting of passengers means more cars on the road - or more drunk drivers anyway - as now there cannot be designated drivers to take home 4 people after 11pm and it is really inconvenient - cause u cannot always plan how many people you will have with you at what time. The speeding laws are strict and if applied should not be aimed at just p platers. the majority of those who speed are well off their p's and constantly do so - the statistics cannot be completely accurate - as we all know if two cars are speeding - a p plater and an elderly man - who will be pulled over. P platers are generally better drivers than those who are off their p's as although they may not have to much experience - they are cautious and drive by the book "how they had to in order to pass their test" - these rules are aimed at getting p platers off the road - but to suspend a license for 3 months - means that someone will not drive for 3 months and then come back on the road expecting to be just as good - lots more accidents there - the points lost should be changed in accordance to how far over the limit you are - and seriously all you older people - PLEASE LOOK WHERE YOUR GOING!!! how many check your blind spots like us p platers??? yes - almost none of you - and its REALLY obvious -

    Brendan Root Posted on 09 July 2007 7:01pm
  • The RTA is a business, they only care about making money. The more rules they make, the more things they can fine you for. Displaying your plates on the outside of the car? How is that going to save lives? It's just a stupid technicality they can fine you for. By making P-platers scapegoats they can blame someone else for their own incompetence at making our roads safer and reducing congestion. This way they can show everybody else that they are doing something "P-platers are to blame for everything! And look how we are punishing them! We are doing our jobs!" The RTA, worst bloody organisation on the entire planet.

    Max Shen Posted on 09 July 2007 9:37am
  • I am 20 so a P plater still and I consider myself a fairly safe driver. However, some of the P platers on victorian roads drive like they are on a Grand prix track. After a recent trip to sydney i think that the current laws for P platers are ridiculus!! Having maximum speed limits for these drivers is more a road hazard than them actually speeding!! Seeing a car as your travelling at 110km/hr and suddenly all the traffic is moving over because there is a Learner or P plater only doing 80-90ks. The pollies that actually make these laws don't drive on the roads themselves anyway, most of them are driven around anyway! Put it this way im very glad that I have my P plates before all these stupid laws are implemented in Victoria.

    Michael R Posted on 09 July 2007 9:36am
  • Not all p-platers do the wrong thing & its not only us that make mistakes. I dont know how many elderly, mothers, business ppl, truck drivers etc I have seen do the wrong thing & nearly cause accidents. They report heaps of accidents in our area (western nsw) but they don't report what circumstances. My ex had a horrific accident on his p's he nearly died and spend months in hospital but it all happended because of a known "dodgy" causeway. If country ppl and better roads to drive on that alone would save a lot of fatalities. Then we also have the wildlife to deal with. I couldn't count how many ppl i have seen swerve to miss roos etc. Even being on my p's i know thats the worst thing you could possibly do! Ppl just need common sense and politicians & those pushing these laws further need to realise there is ALWAYS more to the story! Sure i know some ppl are just stupid and shouldn't have a licence but punish them not those that do the right thing! So many ppl i know have had accidents. Sure a few were from doing stupid things and they go the punishment they deserved but some tried to do the right thing and are made out to be the bad ppl. Thats wrong.. I do believe driver courses should be implemented escpecially for city kids who don't learn to drive until they are 16 at least. Those in the country have usually been driving on their private land learning how to handly, drive and learn the limits of their cars!! That is one of the most important things. I've noticed city drivers come out here and don't know how to handle the conditions.. they hit HUGE potholes thinking that they wont do any damage. Drivers just need to use their common sense and know their car ( it does make a huge difference)

    Amanda Posted on 09 July 2007 9:36am
  • The new rules are imperative. We have had over 60 years to improve road safety in Australia yet more and more accidents and deaths occur. Thirty years ago people complained and still do about wearing seat belts. Yet they save lives, as a matter of fact the seat belt is more important than crumnple zones as it stops significant trauma to the body which would normally kill. And now we have more complaints about saving lives, kids you are kids, you do not have the experience your elders have. The people that bring these rules in study road safety for a living, they know what they are talking about. I have six beautiful children that mean the world to me, if any were to die in a road crash, I would not recover. We need these rules to protect our children and when you kids have children of your own only then will you understand. So for now, stop complaining that you are being hard done by and realise that you need this protection.

    Tim Blake Posted on 09 July 2007 9:36am
  • In what other profession would education be criticised? Don't we want people to treat driving professionally? It is bizarre to me that Mr Job can't see that driver training (both in a theoretical and practical sense) won't be detrimental to driving statistics. It is not about making young drivers over confident, and it is not about teaching them to go fast. It is about learning how to deal with situations as they arise on the road. Teach them why it's important not to be too close to the car in front... I'll bet a large number of "accidents" are as a result of not understanding braking distances, thus causing bumper to bumper accidents. Loss of any life on the roads is a tragedy (I know, I lost a brother and a good friend - both teenagers) but education is critical to understanding how a vehicle works in any number of types of situations, and having the ability to deal with these things WILL save lives. The only difficulty is that it's hard to track when people DON'T die because of skills they learnt in some form of driver training.

    Heather Posted on 09 July 2007 9:36am
  • I think the new P plate laws are abit harsh, I am on my red P`s who was booked a few times years ago when I first got my P`s. Im now 21 and am a Sub contracting courier who works for himself. My mobile phone + handsfree is where I get most of my work during the day. Since having my license back I have not been booked and I spend upto 55hours a week on the road just for work purposes. I have also never had an accident where I was at fault. If I am doing 68 to 70 km/h in a 60 zone im sure the highway patrol would have a field day with me, Everybody can admit you can be over the limit without realising so easily. Where does this leave my license/work/business ? Where does this leave my work and business if I loose

    Daniel S Posted on 09 July 2007 9:36am
  • I agree with Amanda and others about the plates getting stolen. I have experieced it with magnetic plate getting taken off the back. What I dont get is why take the plastic RTA issued one that was on the front in a holder? Also with passenger restrictions you are going to get wannabe boy racers creating illegal street racing not to mention the extra traffic. Also I agree pubic transport is not very reliable especially the frequency of country trains.

    Glen Jenkins Posted on 09 July 2007 9:36am
  • I am a green P plater and I agree with the tougher penalties. What I cannot understand is the 120 hours. The people who are going to actually do 120 hours and complete their logbook honestly are the ones that would be safe drivers anyway. I knew plenty of people at school who were only doing 20-30 hours on the road and fudging the rest in the book back when the hours required was only 50. I think the testing is what needs to be toughened up, and the requirement of something like a defensive driving course to be done before taking the test. There also needs to be a culture change in people my age (20) and below that driving outside the parameters of the law is not acceptable, let alone desirable. I think that the new RTA ad (the pinkie finger one) is a great step in the right direction there.

    Michael Boyce Posted on 09 July 2007 9:36am
  • Its just another way for the government to tax youths along with insurance nothing else. it will not change the way people drive or behave on the road it will only have more people driving without licences and more people copping fines and which will lead to lower economy growth and harsher effects on our youths.

    Rene Giber Posted on 09 July 2007 9:36am
  • ive been on my Ps for three months and i drive better than most people i see on the roads not just other p plate drivers i think it unfair to bring in all these new laws for p platers and learners. all these new laws are makeing it harder for people to get their licence and makeing hasher penalitys just for p plate drivers isnt fair beause ive seen plenty of people speeding and breaking the law that are in their 30s int there 70s ive seen a mother doing 80 in a 60 zone with 4 kids inthe car and its people like that who should be getting restrictions like this just because a group of people do stupid things doesnt mean every one should pay the price its just people asuming that because some p platers are idiots they all are just like people who have a go at 4wd drive owners and caraveners because some people dont like sitting behind caravans they think they shouldent be alowed on the roads and because mums go and buy big 4 wheel drives to go pick up their kids from school and some people go out and buy a 4 wheel drive and think they own the road people think that people who drive 4wd and tow caravans are a menace but a lot of people who own or drive either of these dont drive like idots its just people judgeing every ones because of someonelses actions and im in the country fire service so i know what happens to some one in a car when they hit a tree a 100 i think that the government should have australia wide road rules so that each state is the same and it shouldent matter if you have had you Ps for 3 weeks or your licence for 4 years the laws should be the same for every one

    josh Posted on 09 July 2007 9:36am
  • Well i must agree with some off the new rules but i also belive they should keep a closer eye on green ps and full licence holders i just recently got my red ps and as a mother at 24 i belive the passenger retriction and wrong if i go to familys or partys or even at christmas when we usully dont leave familys house till late i wont even be able to take all my kids home or ill have to leave early to arrive home in time i also found out i cant even apply for an exemption because they wont grant it the only time they may allow it is if i have to tgo to the hospital and that depends on the cop that pulls me over and dont they think that it will make more people have to drive so that will mean instead off having a non intoxicated person be the driver for the night there will be a more chance people will be driving drunk!!!!!!!! I do belive they need to crack down on young drivers and all those p platers that are complaining about this shouldnt have a problem with it unless you speed so simple dont speed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would like to know what happens if you go threw a red light what are the penalltys

    RMAH Posted on 06 July 2007 10:17am
  • I'm 19 & a green p-plate driver living in the country. I'm sorry 2 say but these rules r just ridiculous& will probably cause more fatalities! So many of my friends r from a nearby town & 4 them 2 come in & go out 4 the nite one needs 2 be deso or pay the $100 for a taxi in & then home! Thats $200 b4 any grog! U need 2 be well off 2 go out around here now! Many will start driving their cars in & probably try to drive home to save their money but chances r they wont get there & then p-plates on the outside of the cars is crazy,i have magnetic ps which ive prob spent $50 replacing in 6 mths bcoz they keep getting stolen & RTA ones fly off so you get booked anyway! whats the use? we cant win. They obvisously dont take in2 account country kids when making laws as we dont even have the luxury of public transport or gettin picked up by taxis in certain area as they stopped that too! now my brother cant us up 2 save us driving/walking 2 where taxis CAN pick up If somethin happens& we need a ride becoz he'll be in trouble with the cops! use common sense. We r young drivers & we can pick out the faults with laws already. 4 friends died in car accidents last year some stupidily & from ppl (not on their p-plates) doing stupid things which would obviously cause an accident. Its reported that the p-plate driver had an accident but they dont mention circumstances! Not all p-plate drivers are irresponsible

    Amanda Posted on 06 July 2007 10:16am
  • Being a 67 year old and living in Victoria obviously those rules don't apply. But I can understand the plight of NSW youngsters. My biggest concern is the cancellation of licence for "speeding". What is speeding anyway, and where do you draw the line? Loss of licence for all "speeding" is ludicrous. A few K's over once does NOT constitute dangerous driving. It is the luck of the draw, that while concentrating on other dangers around it is so easy to creep a minor amount over the limit momentarily, get "pinged", and lose your licence. Someone else can be caught at, say, 30kmh over the speed limit and get the same penalty. Experience would suggest that the latter is the one who is probably the habitual speeder, but that is not the case in the first scenario. It is about time legislatiors differentiated between the real offenders, and the accidental one.

    D J McAlpine Posted on 06 July 2007 10:16am
  • Heck, lets just not let young people drive, that way they cannot hurt themselves or others. It is about time a set of standards was done to access the mental attitude of new drivers. If they have aggressive tendencies, then maybe then you place restrictions on them, not blanket all new drivers with these restrictive laws. Most young drivers do the right thing. It is the ratbag element that need controlling. We are already over regulated and over governed, and it is only going to get worse.

    Trevor Posted on 06 July 2007 10:16am
  • ive been driving for 30yrs & have two kids (son on red p-plate & daughter on green p-plate )due to fines he s lost licence for 3 months. i think the age to get ur learners lic should be changed to age 18 like everything else(voting) not at 16

    dianne staunton Posted on 06 July 2007 10:16am
  • give the ls &ps some slack all these draconian fines & penaltys driving acar use to be ajoy now its becomming anight mare iam 63 ihave driven cars trucks buses heavy vehicle licence hc_x but sad to say iwould not pass this licence test now and idont think iwould bother to take it wa is going the same way governed by idiots ,educate them dont penalise ls&ps

    alan dixon Posted on 06 July 2007 10:16am
  • L&P plates need to be displayed low on a vehicle. At night, properly adjusted headlights will not show things in the back window. If 5km's over the limit is too low for P platers, why should "experienced" drivers get booked at all. After reading all the previous comments, it seems like P platers think that 74 in a 60 zone is ok. If kids learn to drive from half of the people on the road, I am not surprised about how many accidents occur. Whatever happend to not crossing double lines, stopping behind the line at RED lights and stopping on the Amber light. The Police need to make a concerted effort to book anyone breaking any road rules. P platers may feel picked on, but if they obeyed the laws there would be no problem. Ultimately every driver should be harrassed by police to obey the rules we all should be observing.

    Eric Posted on 06 July 2007 10:16am
  • This new set of rules will lead to young drivers feeling more bullyed by the system. A simple answer that would be more effective would be to get young drivers to attend a PCYC Driver Education Program. Let these young adults hear what the POLICE, AMBULANCE, SES, GREIF COUNCLING, FIRE, FUNERAL DIRECTORS have to say about the effects of braking the law; this would have a much deeper rooted effect on the way P Platers drive. It only costs $120 and it would save a lot of lives!!

    Nathan Posted on 06 July 2007 10:16am
  • As a professional 17 year old Driver and car enthusiast who is employed in pizza delivery 30+ horus per fortnight i drive far more than 90% percent of people. This gives me alot more experience on the road than almost any P plater and i can safely say driver training is the ancwer. Further rules and penalites will only egg the bogans on more than ever. Defensive driving, getting the car out of a drift e.c.t should be compulsary. Most of these wannabe racers on their Ps floor their cars up to 100+ in 60 zones then when confronted with a 90 degree turn onto say a sidestreet they pathetically slow down to about 20 and shuffle the wheel like a moron cause they have no idea how to effectively turn a car at high (or any for that matter) speeds. Experienced and skillful drivers have no need to constantly try and prove to themselves that they can drive fast.

    Martin Szemeti Posted on 06 July 2007 10:16am
  • This rule is intoduced in vic too so does that mean that wen i turn 16 november 20 this year does that mean i can get my liscence (p1) wen im 17? xDDDD

    Hayden Posted on 06 July 2007 10:16am
  • I see once again those that think they know the answers dont. Firstly how does a learner get 120 hours practice.There mates can't take them as the mates are probably only probationary also. The parents can't take them unless they don't have a life 120 hours equates to 9 days at 8 hours a day or 18 days at 4 hours a day etc. you do the maths. Finally if the learner does not own a car who's car can they drive,in my house not mine as the insurance wont cover a learner. If you live in Narranderra and you are driving yourself your sister and brother home from a function in Forbes and you leave at 10pm how do you get home before curfew. The answer to this blatant speeding and reckless drining by all drivers not just the young is obvious but as the answer is a cost and the goverment cannot prosper from it they the goverment are not interested.I am over 55 years old and ride a 900 Triumph motor cycle at high speeds some times in excess of 160 Kp/h and also drive a 4wd. The fact is even though the speed could be excessive its knowing all the facts as to when and when not to go quick and for how long. The other fact is identifying some of the causes of accidents, one being to remove the very dangerous speed limit of 100 Kp/h as this speed alighns perfectly with the 5th harmonic the one thing that puts people to sleep.It's time the "experts" got off there hands and $500 lunches and left the youth alone and address the problem at the source.It is so simple and could be fixed in 3 months

    Jim Singleon Posted on 05 July 2007 11:04am
  • I find it ridiculous that more unfair and unnessesry rules can be places willy nilly on P plate drivers. Everyone makes mistakes, and let it be known that there will be an almighty outcry after every second p-plate driver looses there licence. I bet Dr Job even has a few speeding fines under his belt. "Dr Job says advanced driver training courses aren't the solution as they can encourage young people to become overconfident in their abilities." Interesting when its known that trained driver react better to unsavoury situations. All P platers will take risks. You cant stop that. But you can help them miss that tree. And save lives. But! that wouldnt give the nsw govenrment funds would it? so more fines it is! Who knows. It might help traffic conjestion?

    Stefan Camilleri Posted on 05 July 2007 11:04am
  • One q - if a learner is using professional instructors exclusively, does the 120 hour rule still apply?

    Jorgen Smith Posted on 05 July 2007 11:04am
  • Its so simple everyone! Dont drink and drive, dont speed, concentrate on your driving, be cautious and dont use your phone while driving. Learn your vehicle and how it handles and dont be a hero to show off for your mates. I havent been stopped in 2 yrs since I've been off my P's.

    Josh Posted on 05 July 2007 11:04am
  • I dont see how limiting the amount of passengers will cause fewer accidents, With people being allowed 1 person under 25 as a passenger this will mean more P1 drivers on the road, and more accidents involving P1 drivers. I do appreciate the familes of those who have lost thier lives as a result of being a passenger in a vehicle, but with more drivers on the roads there will be more accidents. Don't the police have enough to do now? I am just sorry for those people who beleive this will work, Why do we employ doctors who have had thier licence for 50yrs + to tell us how to teach our young drivers? they arent affected by the new rules, infact they are like the " auditors" cityrail employs to 'help make things better" ofcourse there are no toilets on trains from wollongong to sydney but those experts have degree's im just a simple high school drop out. The best way to combat accidents is to provide free advanced driver training courses, these courses teach drivers how to control a spin, or if their car gets out of control how to bring the car back. Get it right RTA before you kill more people!

    Daniel Rosser Posted on 05 July 2007 11:04am
  • I'm 24, own a turbo car and enjoy racing it on track days, and I also think these new rules are a good thing. Teenage male p platers are shocking drivers (I know I was), whenever I see someone driving like a tool in my rear view mirror, 9/10 times they turn out to have p plates on their car. I know some people think these rules are the end of the world, but they are nescessary if we are to reduce our devastating road tolls. Cheers, Mik

    Michael Posted on 05 July 2007 11:04am
  • Education is the answer, NOT penalties. I replied to a similar thing on the RTA website, NO response. I am Taxi Driver, I stated we should adapt a similar program like USA. 15yr olds educated by doing driver training then receiving licence as part of the end of school year ( Not 100% . Maybe someone has more info?). We see this in US teen movies all the time. P-plates are not displayed either. A full licence is given. Therefore, the age for a licence should be same here too. If Howard follows Bush on many things, implements them here, surely USA licencing thing could also be here!

    Greg DAYMOND Posted on 05 July 2007 11:04am
  • young drivers need to know that having a licence is not a right but a responsibility that could be the differnce between a good and freer life style or be seriously injured and no life at all. If it takes for harsher penalties to educate young drivers then so be it, but they need to go further with all penalties for things like drink driving and drug use by all road users. The laws in nsw are not tough enough for any road user

    peter Posted on 04 July 2007 3:48pm
  • Im so glad I live in Perth...we don't have those rules. And Im so glad that I am no longer on P plates.

    Tim Posted on 04 July 2007 3:48pm
  • I agree with all the rules accept the L & P plate displaying. If they are properly adhered to the windscreen on the inside it would be better because when they are outside they are often stolen or thrown away by trouble makers and if not double checked every time a driver gets in and out of their car they will be driving illegaly, because they didn't notice the plates were taken or may even have run out of replacements temperarly. It would also be better for full licenced drivers to remember to take them off when they are driving.

    Bill Petzke Posted on 04 July 2007 3:48pm
  • When people learn, they form habits. If learner and P plate drivers get into the habit of driving carefully and obeying the road rules, they are more likely to continue to drive that way later. Longer learning and P-plate times make sense to me.

    Rich Posted on 04 July 2007 3:48pm
  • The new passenger restrictions mean that a group of friends can't go away for the weekend the snow skiing. We used to leave 8pm Friday night to drive to the snow & share the driving. Now you have to take multiple cars & that's helping the environment - NOT! Also when my son was at Uni, he & his mates had part time jobs as porters unloading & loading the cruise ships. Many of their shifts start at 4am in the city so they had to leave home @ 2.30 am. They used to take it in turns to drive to save petrol costs. A couple of them didn't have their licence so relied on lifts as there aren't buses & trains at that time of the morning. And as pleased as I was that he had a part time job, before he got his licence & he didn't know the other boys, I didn't like getting up & driving him into the city at that time of the morning & then have to come home & by the time I got back home, it was nearly time to get up to go to work. Also, using a handsfree mobile phone kit to talk on the phone, could not be nearly as dangerous as "fiddling" with the buttons on the console for the radio, changing a CD, adjusting the heater/ air con, etc. Are we going to put restrictions on doing that too!. What about lighting up a igarette while driving. How dangerous is that!. Or a mother turning around to do something for the kids in the back seat. I've seen that many times! Get real. Most of these new laws are nonsense!

    Kaye Massoud Posted on 04 July 2007 11:47am
  • I agree tougher laws needed to be introduced but they have taken them in the wrong direction. My biggest compliant is the amount allowed in the car. I think it will increase people taking a risk with drinking and driving, because they can't have a designated driver anymore. And what is there is an emergery, like a group of guys or girls were threaten walking to a pub, so all jumped in Joe's car but were pulled over around the corner by the police. Suddenly Joe gets fined for helping people. Stupid. It just goes to show that the people making the laws are too old and lost touch with how things really work.

    Dave Nichols Posted on 04 July 2007 11:47am
  • Finally, obtaining a licence is being looked at as a responsibility and not a right. For years I have felt it was too easy to gain a licence and not enough training was required. Bring on the restrictions I say, although I'm sure I'm in the minority. YES, I AM A P PLATER. Maybe it has somthing to do with being 39 years old.

    jennifer lea Posted on 04 July 2007 11:47am
  • I think 120 hours of supervised driver training is ridiculously high. To put this into perspective, a trainee aircraft pilot with average ability can obtain a restricted licence to fly and carry passengers after around 30 hours - and that includes some solo time!

    Stephen Gillard Posted on 04 July 2007 11:47am
  • I'm 57 this year and have been driving since before I was legal to get a licience. I had heaps of practice on dirt roads in a 1932 Vauxhall with the skinny wheels sliding all over the dirt road. This gave a good feeling on how the car reacted in certain situations. Sure it built up confidence, but I was never over confident to think that it couldn't happen to me. To prove a point I once drove from Sydney up the New England Hwy at record breaking speed. I was doing 120 mph plus in between the towns, but always stuck to the speeds in the towns and built up areas. I made Eastwood to the Sunshine coast in 11 hours and 20 mins. I rang my wife in Sydney at the time when I arrived at my parents place. She thought I was ringing from Tenderfield near the border. She was not a happy chappy! I know that this may seem stupid to a lot of people, but there was a lot less traffic on the roads in the 1960's, but we have these super Hwy's being built now and have to put up with restricted speed limits on the open Hwy. Funny how they have much higher speeds on the Autobarns in Europe, but don't seem to have as near as many acidents as we do. Are their younger drivers well trained in handling a car at higher speeds, and have much more advanced driving skills? I like to think so as I believe I had good training, necessatated by the dirt roads at the time. I still drive with caution no matter what speed I'm doing and look ahead as much as possible for changed driving conditions, and in some cases drive well under the reconmended speeds as driving conditions have changed dramatically! When it's pooring dogs and cats I still see people driving at 110 k/h in the 110k/h zone. I have been booked for speeding many times over the years since I got my Licience in 1967, but none of them were when I was trying to speed. They were all caused by a lack of attention on my part and were only marginally over the speed limit or in one case I was avoiding an accident when I had right of way when in a right hand merging or over taking lane. I was booked and for the rest of the interstate trip I stuck to the rules when in the overtaking lane and on many occasions on this same trip the semi's forced me into the oncoming traffic and was nearly killed. WHEN I DID MY LICIENCE IN 1967 ONE OF THE RULES WAS TO AVIOD AN ACCIDENT AT ALL COSTS. tHIS APPARENTLY DOES NOT APPLY ANYMORE!!!!!!!

    George Gray Posted on 04 July 2007 11:47am
  • Luckily I'm getting green P's by the end of this month, but I do feel sorry for my new red P friends, BTW, I can tell u, if I was a new licence holder, I would refuse to drive more than 2 suburbs away from where I live on red P's. I've held my licence for 11 months now, n my friends still have 2 beg me to drive from kingsford to Chatswood cos the restrictions are too deterring (I never intentionally speed and my problem is more like road-hogging and going 50km/hr on M4--- nvm, it doesn't come with demerit points). And that makes it worse, I'll just not accumulate the experience I should on Red P's, and be a really bad green P driver, as well as not speed during red P's, but twice as much on Green P's. So, referring to Chris's comment (see below), putting more severe restrictions will not reduce car tragedies, it will just postpone it, and people who like to speed will do it twice as much on higher class licences as they can't do it on lower class licences. U wanna realli know what would help, RTA spending more money and designing more level P plates or training courses, but that costs, so ofcourse they won't do it. They'll just increase the restrictions so that driving instructors earn more. Quite a tragedy, actually--- that soon or later it will mean that a red P is not a novice driver but just a transition period, a new full licence is a novice driver!!!

    Edgar Posted on 04 July 2007 11:47am
  • Finally, obtaining a licence is being looked at as a responsibility and not a right. For years I have felt it was too easy to gain a licence and not enough training was required. Bring on the restrictions I say, although I'm sure I'm in the minority. YES, I AM A P PLATER. Maybe it has somthing to do with being 39 years old.

    jennifer lea Posted on 04 July 2007 11:47am
  • I'm 57 this year and have been driving since before I was legal to get a licience. I had heaps of practice on dirt roads in a 1932 Vauxhall with the skinny wheels sliding all over the dirt road. This gave a good feeling on how the car reacted in certain situations. Sure it built up confidence, but I was never over confident to think that it couldn't happen to me. To prove a point I once drove from Sydney up the New England Hwy at record breaking speed. I was doing 120 mph plus in between the towns, but always stuck to the speeds in the towns and built up areas. I made Eastwood to the Sunshine coast in 11 hours and 20 mins. I rang my wife in Sydney at the time when I arrived at my parents place. She thought I was ringing from Tenderfield near the border. She was not a happy chappy! I know that this may seem stupid to a lot of people, but there was a lot less traffic on the roads in the 1960's, but we have these super Hwy's being built now and have to put up with restricted speed limits on the open Hwy. Funny how they have much higher speeds on the Autobarns in Europe, but don't seem to have as near as many acidents as we do. Are their younger drivers well trained in handling a car at higher speeds, and have much more advanced driving skills? I like to think so as I believe I had good training, necessatated by the dirt roads at the time. I still drive with caution no matter what speed I'm doing and look ahead as much as possible for changed driving conditions, and in some cases drive well under the reconmended speeds as driving conditions have changed dramatically! When it's pooring dogs and cats I still see people driving at 110 k/h in the 110k/h zone. I have been booked for speeding many times over the years since I got my Licience in 1967, but none of them were when I was trying to speed. They were all caused by a lack of attention on my part and were only marginally over the speed limit or in one case I was avoiding an accident when I had right of way when in a right hand merging or over taking lane. I was booked and for the rest of the interstate trip I stuck to the rules when in the overtaking lane and on many occasions on this same trip the semi's forced me into the oncoming traffic and was nearly killed. WHEN I DID MY LICIENCE IN 1967 ONE OF THE RULES WAS TO AVIOD AN ACCIDENT AT ALL COSTS. tHIS APPARENTLY DOES NOT APPLY ANYMORE!!!!!!!

    George Gray Posted on 04 July 2007 11:47am
  • I'm a Victorian and i cant believe that learner drivers in NSW only had to get 50 hours of experienced driving, particually when they are able to get their licence at the age of 17. I think it's a wise move to make that 120 hours as it is more suitable for when the individual drives on their own. Down here in Victoria it has been advised (but noit inforced) that learner drivers obtain 120 hours before they get their P's, and believe me, you can tell which drivers have had that 120 hours experience on their L's. So my advice for the NSW L and P platers complaining about the new laws is to get over it. I'd much rather be driving around cautiously at the age of 17 on my own than still only being on my L plates like we are down here in Victoria because we aren't able to get out P's until we're 18 (which is sensible i think).

    Vic Man Posted on 04 July 2007 10:31am
  • Really what do these young drivers expect. I cant remember the last time I drove anywhere without a P plate driver (both male and females equally) either tailgating, speeding past me or cutting me off. I am a 28 year old who has 3 children in the car and am sick to death of these people putting not only there own lives in danger but the lives of me and my children. Maybe these laws will not only save these young drivers lives but the innocent families that would of been devestated because these p platers think they are invisable and have no respect for anyone on the road.

    Amanda Posted on 04 July 2007 10:31am
  • People's attitudes to driving needs to change. All the rules under the sky cannot change a person's attitude if they are hell-bent on disobeying the rules. The "it won't happen to me" attitude is in all of us, until someone close is injured or dies. My driving abilities are good but what about the next person, no I'm not sure. Defensive driving courses should be subsidised by the governments. Having that knowledge can save lives. Just knowing how to correct and not over-correct the car when it's gone off the road, can save lives. DRIVER EDUCATION IS PARAMOUNT TO YOUNG AND NOT-SO-YOUNG DRIVERS STAYING ALIVE. Tell the politicians that another potential tax-payer has died on the roads.

    Irene Wierenga Posted on 04 July 2007 10:31am
  • I strongly think the RTA should be doing something about the accidents but these laws are going to do absolutely nothing! Shortly after receiving my Ps I was able to attend a full 5 day course at DECA, this training did not make me over confident as Dr. Job said but definitely made me a better driver. We were shown proper methods of scanning, what and how to look for things and how to react, something parents and driving instructors tend to forget or unable to explain proper (the instructors are paid to get you to pass). We do hear a lot about the 'hoons' and crashes but what about all the other P-platers that manage to make it safe everyday? If the RTA wants to do something they should be targeting the hoons not every P-plate. Right now the car restrictions by the RTA are absolutely stupid and not thought through. We should have a ban on the kW not the cylinders or chargers. Anyone that wants to speed or 'hoon' is going to find a way of reaching those speeds, any car can go 100km and even at 60km braking for an emergency (especially without ABS) is a scary and dangerous thing. So far, the RTA is simply trying to please the public and not thinking anything through, especially with the displaying of the plates - they tell you where to put them but they don't tell us how to attach them (without scratching the paintwork)!

    James Burke Posted on 04 July 2007 10:31am
  • How outrageous, i feel sorry for all the L and P platers in new south wales to have such boundaries and extended learning hours. I believe take a page out of the germans book and teach them how to drive and cope in a variation of circumstances. Allow the testing of ABS etc. However if people drove more carefully, these rules would never have been implemented.

    D-Man Posted on 04 July 2007 10:31am
  • I've been on my L plates for 1 1/2 years now. in that time ive log booked over 140 hours driving plus heaps more. I have freinds that have only done 50 or less hours and thier driving scares me. The 120 hours rule is great, but the night restriction id redicules my cousin has her P plates and she allways drives my mated home who have been drinking and cant drive. Were in a small country town and the only public transport is a taxi who closes at 11pm on a saturday night. We need to be able to carry more than one passenger otherwise there will be lots of people driving home drunk. The hoon laws are great, but the high performance cars law is a joke, you cant drive a 70kW Mercades A class Buzz box, but you can drive a 200kW new camry.....where is the common sense?? ive grown up with V8's mum and dad have one each and i rekon there safer than anything on the road.

    Ben Posted on 04 July 2007 10:27am
  • all sounds like the powers at be are trying pull the smart boys with caps into line and try to get these people to respect the law. and to understand why they have a licence in the first place. its a real shame that those good young drivers have to suffer. but the ones that conture to drive like flips. and even if you ask them why they do it the answer is we want too. and they could not care less. so where do we go to now. its all up to them the balls in there court now.

    bob w Posted on 04 July 2007 10:27am
  • Ok. Its unfair. Why should P platers have to suffer. Look at the speeding statistics, out of 16% of drivers, nearly half of the speeding offences are on their P's. Sorry to say it, but, tough. The only reason I can see for being upset by the tougher speeding fines is if you are planning on speeding, if not, whats the problem? Just remember this is an effort to stop young people being killed. Yes it is a quick fix, and it should be. As for Miss Karagounis having never had a problem, you have only had your license for 3 weeks!! Maybe you havent been caught yet. I do think the passenger limit is a bit unfair but I can see no other way to stop the "showoff" factor. Just remember that at the end of the day, you have to prove yourself worthy of many things and now it seems that not putting the lives of other people on the roads at risk is one of those things.

    Steve Posted on 04 July 2007 10:27am
  • well at last some one is taking note on why we are saying . but to make sure p plate drivers dont speed all P plate drives cars should be speed limted and should have tachograph which they need to have inspected once mth on there driving record and then they can be booked for speeding or a computor systerm that can be fitted to any car some thing like a flight recorder box and by this RTA will know what this car has been up to and any one time. killing them selfs let mean it not be halfharted at this problem But this on the hours that they have to do is crap as how can it be proved that they have done all these hours as I do know some say they have done it but realy have not done all the hours they are ment to. I feel that al new drivers should be put through a defensive driving course and on top of that they should all be made to see movies on bad road crashers and go to the hospitals where some of these poeple have end up after a road crash and to see first hand what can happen to them if they drink or speed.

    alf willliams Posted on 04 July 2007 10:27am
  • As you will have some type of plate for 3 years why not get the metal ones which attach to the number plate. The plate is easily removed fr the holder if another person is driving. They look straight but the attaching bars can be bent to fit front and back numberplates and the attach with 2 screws to the number plate.

    Margaret Sewell Posted on 04 July 2007 10:27am
  • Bout time might make the ppl on l's and p's to stop and think before driving ppl on there p's only have other p platers to blame so take it out on them not the RTA and the POLICE there only tryin to help you all stay alive and in one bit..... Think about when you have kids......................

    sammie Posted on 04 July 2007 10:27am
  • the mosy grossly unfair part of this legislation is the fact that the exemption for passengers after 11pm may not include 'travel to and from work'. My son works and does not have a licence and i rely on his workmates to give him a lift when he finishes after midnoght as I work part time and also attend full time uni. For the same reasons, work and uni, we have a tight budget and when it comes time for him to learn to drive it will cause us a bit of financial difficulty, as we only make short and essential trips, due to the cost of fuel. We have worked out he will have to do 3 hours every week for a year to get 120 hours, and my wife and I dont do those hours now.

    scarecrow Posted on 04 July 2007 10:27am
  • As a hoon in my younger days, I believe that all these new laws do not deter any young drivers from speeding. I am currently on my P plates at the age of 27. I have been driving for 9 years now. I have been to jail for driving whilst disqualified and speeding e.g.. 50 km over the limit. As these new laws come in to play I am fed up with one way views of these policy makers, I have had one accident in my life and it was at about 10 km an hour in a car park. How can these laws in regards to displaying p plates going to affect the actual driving standards of drivers, all it does is allow police officers the opportunity to target P plate drivers, Another thing that bothers me is why the government allows car company¿s to sell cars with faster and bigger motors every year even 4 cylinder motors these days can produce 120kw+, V6 which p platers can still drive are producing 180kw +, The real question is what if I modify my cars engine, ie all internal modifications, larger pistons and valves the police officer would have no idea what was inside the engine. I think its time politicians started thinking of driver education to making drivers more confident rather than restricting P plater¿s. TIS IS NOT THE ANSWER P PLATERS A SICK OF BEING TREATED LIKE LEPPERS

    G Posted on 04 July 2007 10:27am
  • I HATE displaying plates! id rather have a colored strip around the border of my number plates or something instead. p plates are so ugly we need to abolish them!!! also, banning v8's does nothing. people still get up to 200kmh in a 4 cylinder. please.

    Rory Posted on 04 July 2007 10:27am
  • The RTA have not really thought about this with any logic have they. I am a 43 YO Black licence driver. Now there will be younger ones on the streets waitng for transport in sydney, how dangerous. The poor country folk dont get the luxury of public transport. What will these young ones do now? Naturally most of them will run the gauntlet and break the law which of course is wrong but they will do it

    greg bennett Posted on 04 July 2007 10:27am
  • You don't know MickP, you don't know JulesI, you dont know Mipsie, you dont know Fatty, and you probably dont know Shawsie. Hey it doesnt matter, they're dead! Died in four different P-plate accidents. Fault from two accidents were from the cars they were either driving or were a passenger, fault from the other two accidents was from other P-plate drivers. Suffer the rules and regs, maximum 4 years tops! At least you might enjoy each others company till you're old. Losing mates so young, it's a bitch! Looking back we all did the rules and regs at school for a load more years. Stop arguing and live more. Hey Peter, for all your credentials, the only thing you came up with is how to display your Ls or Ps? The plates are free, display them on the outside, take em off if you dont want to lose em. Wishing my dead buds only had that problem!!!!! Chris

    Chris Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • You should call yourself CarsGuide NSW. Even more significant changes to the learner driver laws just took effect in Queensland and they don't even rate a mention. Please explain.

    Richard Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • I think the new rules for Learner and Provisional drivers are a bit over the top. The reason for so many accidents involving young drivers is not the fact that they have more than one passenger or driving late at night, most accidents are caused due to a young driver showing off to his mates. They think they are invincible and like to show their mates what they can do behind the wheel and that's when things go wrong. I think professional courses and driver education at school are key factors in combating this. I also feel that young people need to be shown the raw effects of what can happen in the event of a young driver accident so they can see what can result from them trying to be invincible.

    Kylie Turner Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • Being an older driver in my early thirties I can also disagree with the passenger restirctions. When I was a teenager and had my licence I was the none drinker so I was designated driver. This way we all got home safe and didn't have to pay for expensive taxi fares or wait for the trains or night rider buses. Also what do you do if you are a younger family going on holiday and want to drive in the early hours of the mornig to you detination. Do you really have to rearrange you whole plans? I personally think 25 is to old to have the restriction applied to maybe 21 and then that still makes it tough on people. I can now see my 23 year old sister who has just got her licence mainly for work purposes having difficulties because they motor pool and start at 5am so she wont be driving her workmates anymore. I can also she her ringing me at all hours in the morning to get home from the pubs and clubs me now being the taxi serivce for her and her friends to get home safely.

    Nicole Henderson Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • Accidents will always happen but we can try and stop them. Why complain about not being able to talk on your mobile phone when you shouldn't anyway? Why complain about not being able to have passengers in your car after 11pm anyway? Losing your licence may seem "harsh" but if it keeps law-breakers and risk-takers off the road in order to save lives then so be it. Stop being so selfish and think about the reasons Why the rules have come into place. Living is more important and you won't know until you lose someone in a car crash.

    E-jien Higgins Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • the one thing i do not understand is, how come you can lose points for speeding in an open road with no cars around, but you can not lose points when having an accident, isn't having an accident worse then just speeding a little? i am a P2 driver, but have had one speeding ticket already, which i did deserve but, my mate has had an accident and all he had to do was pay for the damages, no points lost at all. i believe the new speeding rules are good, but to strict, they should only apply for the 15km/h and above band. this way it gives all P-platers a little bit of a space to play with.

    Andrew Smith Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • I don't see what's wrong with keeping the magnetic P plates displayed on the inside of your vehicle at least you know they are alway's there when you are driving. Unlike having to now display them on the outside of your car now, where you either end up forgetting them having them being possibly stolen,falling off or blown away unaware of this and being caught with no P's or L's displayed. This is a stupid idea. At least when you have them displayed on the inside of your vehicle you know they are there. So if the RTA are not happy with the Magnetic P's & L's, that are displayed inside vehicles then why don't the RTA come up with some sort of a better solution for some new Magnetic P's or L's they would be happy with, and drivers could remain displaying their L's & P's inside their vehicles. At least when you have them displayed inside your vehicle you don't get that sick feeling wondering if your P's & L's remain displayed on the outside. It's a bit difficult if you have no spare L's or P's on you and your in the middle of nowhere & not able to get some sparesP's & L's then what are you suppose to do then.

    kerrie Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • Does anyone find it odd that Dr Job says on one hand that 'advanced driver training courses aren't the solution as they can encourage young people to become overconfident in their abilities' - while in reference to the increase in on-road experience to 120 hours for learners he says that 'evidence shows the extra experience plays a big role in making young drivers more aware of what can go wrong and anticipating other drivers' behaviour.' Come on Dr Job, do you want young drivers to be better educated or not?? Before turning the 'magical' 25, I completed AAMIs Skilled Drivers course - a brilliant course for new drivers. Far from making young drivers over-confident, the course scares the hell out of some drivers when they see what a difference speed and distance makes in a controlled environment. Now that I'm living in Canada, I've come to realise that realistic speed-limits make a difference (here the 'speeding culture' varies by province, and I think a lot depends on whether the speed-limits are realistic).

    Jeff Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • It's about time. Not being a NSW licensed driver. I think this should happen right through out Australia. Instead of teaching the youth and adults a like, how to pass there license why not teach them how to drive a car properly and if that means putting them on a skid pan then so be it. It may just save a life one day.. You can restrict the engine size of cars and motor bikes however there are 4 cylinder cars that will go just as hard as a V6 or V8. Mkymus

    J.Hewitt Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • Well, I think Dr Job has proved how much of a smart, intelligent man he is... "He says until the skill of driving has been mastered and is automatic, other factors are more likely to affect the driver." This is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. The average person will never, ever 'master' driving - it is something you continually develop. Even the best race drivers - those that you might say have 'mastered' driving - say they still could learn much more. Also, I think a big problem on our roads is people driving 'automatically' - they don't stop at lights or stop signs, they don't use blinkers, and pull out in front of other cars without looking. I have nearly had my car written off several times by people who do this. He says he wants to reduce trauma for P platers, then maybe he should teach these people how to drive... Continuing on, it is a proven fact that while you are younger, you learn better as your brain is developing. You aslo learn something better if you are taught properly (as in advanced driver education... hint, hint), so that you don't learn bad habits. The mindset that P platers will be safer drivers if they are taught as little as possible of how to control a deadly machine surely is the best (according to them)... Also, the RTA jumps up and down and says P platers are the most dangerous drivers on the road. I would be very, very interested to find out the correct figures, taking into account the amount of hours spent driving. I mean, if you spend a higher proportion of time spent on the road than other age groups do (which P platers do), then you have higher odds of having a crash, no matter what age you are, what licence you hold or how much experience you have under your belt... It helps a lot if the parents let their child drive everywhere (they will want to), as the more experience they get when thy are just starting the better. Most people I know that had their parents avoiding letting them drive are far less capable behind the wheel and tend to be a lot more nervous drivers. For the record, I am a green P plater and am far from the best driver, but am getting into club motorsport. All I can say is in a few events (probably about 30 min driving time), I have learned more about car control and emergency situations than I did in my 100+ hours of L plate driving, it keeps me and others off the street (not that I drive stupidly on public roads) and it's good fun.

    Nathan Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • Well, I think this is one of dumbest things I have heard. "He says until the skill of driving has been mastered and is automatic, other factors are more likely to affect the driver." The average person will never, ever 'master' driving - it is something you continually develop. Even the best race drivers - those that you might say have 'mastered' driving - say they still could learn much more. Also, I think a big problem on our roads is people driving 'automatically' - they don't stop at lights or stop signs, they don't use blinkers, and pull out in front of other cars without looking, because they are not thinking about what they are doing. They might as well be asleep. I have nearly had my car written off several times by people who do this. He says he wants to reduce trauma for P platers, then maybe he should teach these people how to drive... Continuing on, it is a proven fact that while you are younger, you learn better as your brain is developing. You aslo learn something better if you are taught properly (as in advanced driver education... hint, hint), so that you don't learn bad habits. The mindset that P platers will be safer drivers if they are taught as little as possible of how to control a deadly machine surely is the best (according to them)... Also, the RTA jumps up and down and says P platers are the most dangerous drivers on the road. I would be very, very interested to find out the correct figures, taking into account the amount of hours spent driving. I mean, if you spend a higher proportion of time spent on the road than other age groups do (which P platers do), then you have higher odds of having a crash, no matter what age you are, what licence you hold or how much experience you have under your belt... For the record, I am a green P plater and am far from the best driver, but am getting into club motorsport. All I can say is in a few events (probably about 30 min driving time), I have learned more about car control and emergency situations than I did in my 100+ hours of L plate driving, it keeps me and others off the street (not that I drive stupidly on public roads) and it's good fun.

    Nathan Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • Being a 19 year old Green P plate driver, not many of these new rules apply to me, but I say that some of these are really too strict too fast. The people making these are thinking its ' for their own good '. I say that they should go back and do their learners, and have their P-plates again with these new rules. See how they like not being able to drive more then one person around. Or if they are in a hurry for a meeting and getting caught 5kms over the limit and BAM no more licence for three months. Yes I do agree on some of the rules though. The mobile phones is a big one. It distracts the driver's attention away from the road. The curfew I can kind of agree on but also it temps P drivers to try to get home either a) through an expensive taxi, b) through trying to get away with more passangers, or in the worst case c) driving home under the influence. That shouldn't be a temptation any more. I do think some of us early drivers do go a little crazy, but I know plenty of P plate drivers that are safer then most fully licenced drivers.

    Mr G Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • The road rules and regulations are just too extreme in australia. Just a way for the goverment to make money. Its scary to just drive up the street. And the police are just predators on the road.

    nigel mccarthy Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • I have been driving for more years the I can Remember . This thing about P- plates on the outside of the car is only a money spinner . Prove me wrong the P- plates can NOT with stand the elements they never have . How many have been stolen from cars at shopping centre car parks on the street etc. How much does it cost to replace P- plates another money spinner. Yes young people have accidents BUT that has nothing to do with where P-plates should be . Why don't we have a large P painted front and back of the car You can't complain about intelligence because there isn't any with this.

    Alan Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • Putting more tougher laws will put huge pressure on young drivers. We don't want any pressure, it's ridiculous, it's not gonna reduce accidents because accidents always happen. You have to know the car, their brake, their speed, their power and all sorts of thing, because all the experienced drivers have to know their car. Some young drivers can't even afford a good new car with 5 star on crash test. It's pathetic when they try to put more pressure on young people when they are in tough time at school (trying their best to acheive goal). It won't make my life any easier. Thank to you New Laws.

    George Lomidze Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • I have been driving for more years the I can Remember . This thing about P- plates on the outside of the car is only a money spinner . Prove me wrong the P- plates can NOT with stand the elements they never have . How many have been stolen from cars at shopping centre car parks on the street etc. How much does it cost to replace P- plates another money spinner. Yes young people have accidents BUT that has nothing to do with where P-plates should be . Why don't we have a large P painted front and back of the car You can't complain about intelligence because there isn't any with this.

    Alan Posted on 04 July 2007 10:24am
  • There is no solution to this problem. Accidents will always happen, we can not stop these things happening. I believe the government and RTA should start spending some money and do such things listed below. 1. Improve the conditions of the road (How many pot holes are they in Sydney, how many poorly placed signs and redlight) 2. Driver Training (Take a page from Germany) 3. Don't allow young people to drive 20 year old cars with no safety equipment (Technology saves lifes - use it) 4. Actually installing more Streetlights 5. Educate parents. Remember a lot of us grew up watching our parents drive and honestly I've seen some parents drive a lot worse with no regard for others or themselves. If the government is serious about fixing this problem along with the RTA, education is the key. Don't just quote statistics to people in general, educate them, teach them how to respond to situations. Fatal accidents can happen even if your not speeding. As long as we have cars made of metal and people on the road, people will have accidents either non serious or serious ones. Human beings are prone to making mistakes. Why do we focus on just P platers - Im sure you all have seen police officers in their highway patrol cars speeding along having fun with their cars. Why aren't the police made responsible for thier actions. There is just too much corruption in this system we have. I've had police cars reving their engines next to me likes hoons, asking me to drag them for fun. What kind of role models are they? Its time to get REAL and focus on the WHOLE picture and not just focus on the group of people who have the least voice. If the government thinks its saving lives, it is a pathetic attempt. Save lifes by being proactive and spend money. Stop wasting money on stupid government inquiries into things like why a 200 year old tree collasped in Tasmania like Senator Brown had done wasting 20 millions tax payer dollars a few years back. Help pay for young drivers to do a defensive driving course that would be the first and best step at preventing this.

    Andrew Lin Posted on 03 July 2007 9:42am
  • Being a red P myself, of course I will say the rules are outrageously stereotypical, idiotic and typical of the incompetent measures of the RTA and the NSW government (VIC increasingly). I am inclined to say it. So I will. The "banned" list does not take into account the car's age, safety rating, or the actual fact that a turbo or super-charged engine is not actually the doomsday device when coupled to a red P plater. Agreed some of us are more immature, but on the massive majority, we are a sensible cohort. However after reading comments, I fear this may well be censored on the grounds that the car hating press are under the pump to cut out the hoons (good) and Carbon Dioxide, to just ban all cars and make us all drive Dihatsu Mirage things that have a top speed of 4km/h. What my proposition is to get make massive amendments to both the list and the way drivers are trained. In Germany, all facets of driving are tested, including how to use the safety features (namely ABS) which is a much more effective weapon against younger deaths on the roads. Of course, I could go on and start a whole new topic such as why P plate drivers speed here, having lived on continental Europe (Draconian speeding laws, the slowest of any developed country simply make it too tempting to drive at an "adequate pace"), but back to the list... A new formula should be developed. I am privileged to drive on occasion, a brand new V6 Mercedes. Because it has a "dizzying" power of just 200kW, it is banned...and it weighs the same as the moon, so most of the performance is negated. Yet it has a 5 star rating and too many acronyms plus the fact I am "a competent, sensible driver". The new formula should include: Insurance group rating for that car (directly targeting the hoons) Power to weight ratio Modifications ONLY for HANDLING aspects of car (No semi slick tyres but things like bigger brakes should easily be added on without fear of losing the licence) Safety Rating (NCAP) and last but not least PROPER Driver Education Centres. $10 mill (get someone to sponsor it, make it cheap, NSW isnt doing to well...) or death after death each year...what do we think? I truly believe all my measures will bring a much more safety conscious driving population. I could snipe all the other comments off, mostly all of them blindly conquering with law changes on emotion rather than science, but then I will not get published, and I truly feel for this subject.

    Jonathon Posted on 03 July 2007 9:42am
  • I have read the comments posted here and there is a lot of emotive words without any real solutions. As an old fart, ex driving instructor, ex truck driver averaging 100,000 klms a year post graduate quals in applied research (hell a smart truckie!) and still an active participant in motorsport I think I too have a bases for the following comments. The driving tests are a joke. Road skills are a joke, bullying on the road is rampant with tailgaters and vehicles with invisible indicators common. The new rules are the best that the governments can do without spending too much money. That's right, another cheap fix. The P plates are ill conceived, subject to theft, falling off and hard to attach. Here is an alternative solution. All cars are issued with a new type of registration plate and drivers license. the plate and license are connected by a Bluetooth communications systems that change the colour of the outer border of the plate to the colour appropriate to the drivers level. Or it could even be an LED bar on the left or right. The bar can also show Traffic Police other information such as restricted license, drink-driver, or special consideration given to P plate drivers. The plate can run off the cars power system and the smart license can have a button battery. This would solve and allow more complex and fairer license situations and allow easier policing of the driver.

    Peter Andrews Posted on 02 July 2007 11:51am
  • My question to those people who argue that it is difficult to keep the L- or P- plate tags on their vehicle: Would you rather buy yourself $5-10 worth of 3M Command adhesive tape to keep the tags on your ride or write up a check to pay the (more than $10) fine? Feel free to use your common-sense or a calculator to figure that one out. Like all laws, these ones are designed to prevent unfavorable behaviour in the targeted population. The laws (and sentences) related to sexual assault, burglary and murder; they are there as a deterrent. These new driving laws are not a fund-raising exercise (if you don't get caught breaking the law, there is no fine, right?!). And anyway, if young drivers didn't represent such a disproportionate incident statistic on our roads, would you still think these rules would be implemented?

    K-Man Posted on 02 July 2007 11:51am
  • I recently got my red p's and although these rules are a little annoying they are needed to reduce accidents involving young drivers, i hope that the rule about speeding even 5kms over is not true because everybody does that even experienced drivers so we shouldn't have to suffer losing our license because of that.

    Caitlin Posted on 02 July 2007 9:26am
  • In my opinion the RTA should design and supply a better quality P & L plate supplied with a self release adapter bracket compatible to fit number plates when issuing permits or licences. The current P & L plates are too flimsy crack easily and are not uv resistant Standardize the P & L plate as an removable extension of the number plate.

    Douglas Davison Posted on 02 July 2007 9:26am
  • In the year after the "high performance car" restrictions were implemented for P platers, accidents in NSW for that demographic rose 37%. Forcing more young drivers on the road because they can no longer have 1 designated driver among 4 people will cause another jump in accidents. RIP, the people that the RTA's short-sighted and band-aid patches will kill in the next year.

    Alan Posted on 02 July 2007 9:26am
  • With all the hype of tougher penalties and longer learning periods, there is no mention of tougher / upgraded testing / examinations at application time. If we are to put the L's through a longer period of learning, then should we not then have a more comprehensive / onerous testing regime to ensure only those fully competant are granted a licence? There is no point in maintaining the existing examination regime that can be passed with 3 months (50 hours) knowledge experience - if we are to put the new L's through 120 hours of experience the exam needs to reflect this - ie be 2.5 times more comprehensive. Of course that might imply a necessity for upgrading the examiners too (maybe that should have been done all along).

    Evan Jones Posted on 02 July 2007 9:26am
  • Quite simply the Governments here are uneducated deadbeats with no idea about solving social issues such as teen deaths behind the wheel. I am 19 and cannot believe that the RTA and other authorities allow such pathetic drivers onto our roads. What we need is not passenger limits, but stringent driver training and courses. They have them in Europe and work to great effect, proper intermediate courses that demonstrate how to handle changing weather conditions, teach how to change tyres and understand the car. What we have now is a piss-poor effort, this country has the ability and resources to be a world leader in anything, but our governments constantly let us down, only trying to win votes as usual. We NEED driving training courses and longer programs to teach the public how to drive and understand a car in depth.

    Hendo Posted on 02 July 2007 9:26am
  • I disagree with these new laws with passanger restrictions. i have just turned 20 and i have had my Red P's for almost 12 months. The government wants to help protect the environment BUT restriction the number of passangers between 11pm & 5am. Means more taxis and shuttle buses on the road. So more people will be walking home causeing, damage to property and possilbe assualt and rapes increases. Sometimes i often wonder what maybe going through the general manager (Dr Soames Job) head. Not all P Platers are bad drivers

    Glenn Posted on 02 July 2007 9:26am
  • This is complete crap, i mean by limiting the amount of ppl in the car between 11pm-5am... that means more cars on the road wich will increase the pollution killing the world faster i mean come on anything you do will have consequences. eventually it'll get to the point where no-one will want to drive at all because it's too much hassle, the driving instructors, taxis, and public transport will rake in the profits, and then you'll see a decrease in job attendance. i think teaching people how to drive alert, and resposibly is the key not cornering ppl into a postion where even just something as simple as getting ur liscence turns into a bloody SAT exam, come on people people will crash, get over it

    pappy007 Posted on 02 July 2007 9:26am
  • i think these laws are really unfair for young L & P plate drivers and will cause alot of trouble at train and bus stations and taxi ranks. all i have to say is good luck to the system trying to sort that problem out too. i think the speeding law is great. but cmon 120 hours of experienced driving is very HARSH!

    LEdwards Posted on 02 July 2007 9:26am
  • How many of you young L and P plate drivers have had to attend a accident where one or more of your friends has died, have you ever heard the screams of pain of the mangled victims of car accident caused by an inflated ego and inexperience, well I had to attend an accident as a tow truck driver where my best friend, two employees and the woman who I had an engagement ring for in my pocket were the victims. When I got there they were either dead or dying due to the driver¿s lack of experience ok they were only 7 kmph over the speed limit (67kmph in a 60 zone) combine this with booze and poor night driving conditions this turned into a simple horror week that involved four funerals. You say to lose your license for 5kmph is a little harsh so add two 67kmph to that and you could be in the same place as my friends and girlfriend have are. You say only one person in the car is not fair if this rule was in place only two would have died instead of four. You say that you are not the like the other idiots and you have good car control and your reactions are faster than the old fart in the car with you that is telling you to take it easy. Well this may be true, but it is the experience that has kept that old fart alive. That old bugger has had to drive a generation of cars that did not have the same safety features that the newer model cars have, in some the lights at night were almost useless, hit the brakes and they would lock giving you no car control at all, the wipers were just pieces of rubber that sometimes worked and as for demisters and air-conditioning forget it just to name a few problems we had to face and the roads we learnt to drive on were pathetic in many cases compared to what you have to drive in and on today. They have stayed alive through a combination of luck and EXPERAINCE something that you New INEXPERIANCED drives if you are lucky will gain but don't be fooled by factors like how quiet your car is inside, it has 10 air bags, ESP, ABS, EBD crumple zones and a 5 star crash rating, 4 wheels disk brakes etc. These are their to help you incase of an accident not so to lull you into a false sense of security combined with your it¿s not going to happen to me iv¿e got it under control attitude. The last words my friend said to me before he left that fatal night was "Don't worry mait we are only going for a drive and I will take it easy" Then as they I walked up to the drivers window at 12.15am he said " Sorry mait I thort I had it under control tell my wife and son I love her" He died later that morning in my blood soaked arms. The state government is trying to save your lives and these restrictions are for only 3 years you will sit back and wonder what all the fuss was about years later. If you are unfortunate enough to have a serious accident you may thank them for putting these rules in place and possibly saving the lives of one or more of your friends or even worse your family that¿s if you live through this learning curve.

    RP Posted on 02 July 2007 9:22am
  • Do they have any idea how hard it is to get a plate stuck on a new car? omst new cars have front bumper panels made of softer non magnetic alloy or plastics, and some like the citroen c4's dont even have magnetic bonnets. so they have effectively made it HARDER for them to see P/L plates because if the only place you can have them stick is on the bonnet, to an oncoming car that will look distorted or flattened depending on the angle of the nose of your car. then there are regular ones you can stick behind number plates....the problem is that they hardly ever stay there, and i have had quite a few fly off, some without me noticing until ive finished driving, so that would mean i could get fined for not showing one. and ill be damned if im going to mark or ruin my car by using adhesives, if they want me to do that they can pay for it. it would have been a much smarter move to simply say "make sure both plates on the front and back are CLEARLY visible". and lastly, not all of us p plate drivers are reckless immature 17 year old idiots who show off to their friends. but of course, that's NEVER taken into consideration.

    Kieran Posted on 29 June 2007 6:14pm
  • I¿m disappointed at how narrow minded some young people are, the fact that they only consider their own circumstances and don¿t look at the big picture. I have been driving for some 22 years now and certainly recall being restricted with P plate rules (eg. 80km/h, limit of vehicle weight etc) and knew that was the next step after being restricted with the Learners, to obtaining the full license. You¿re restricted with a Learners permit and the P plate is just the next stage of restrictions - at least you can drive by yourself. Put up with it. To say that all drivers should not be using their mobiles when some relies on communication for their job when travelling (providing they use a hands free device), is narrow minded. Although I do agree with being caught speeding for just 5kms over and losing your license is unfair. These rules are a primer to keeping one within check of the road rules and really only apply for a short time.

    KN Posted on 29 June 2007 6:14pm
  • They will make a difference in reducing deaths on the road and will decrease ones chance of being a road statistic. Not everyone agrees with a number of rules, road or not, but everyone must consider the big picture and obey rules where the community at large benefit. This is a life or death situation. The roads are a dangerous place to be.

    KN Posted on 29 June 2007 6:14pm
  • Its about time!

    Nicko Posted on 29 June 2007 6:14pm
  • Its about time!

    Nicko Posted on 29 June 2007 6:14pm

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