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Do young drivers lack skills? Poll

  • By Paul Gover
  • Herald Sun
  • image

    "We need a top level re-think about the wellbeing of our young drivers, a program to train them properly, and a licence test that truly proves their ability to drive a car," says driving trainer Bob Watson.

A string of horrifying holiday crashes, many involving young people, has sparked a Carsguide reader backlash.

Parents and concerned drivers are calling for changes and improvements on all fronts to cut the carnage.  Many have asked about the safety systems in cars, with the emphasis on airbags, anti-skid brakes and ESP stability control, but there are also questions about driver training. Have your say in our poll at left.

"The idea of handing complete control of a complex machine like a motor car to a poorly trained operator is patently absurd, and obviously highly dangerous – yet that is what is happening every day. Young people have major car accidents, alone or with groups, with sickening regularity, and there is no evidence of the trend diminishing," says Bob Watson, who is more than just another Carsguide reader. He is a former champion in race and rally driving, a Holden engineer and an experienced driver trainer who says Australia needs a comprehensive re-think on driving licenses.

"We need a top level re-think about the wellbeing of our young drivers, a program to train them properly, and a licence test that truly proves their ability to drive a car," Watson says.  "The time may not be far away when heartbroken parents who have lost their child in a typical young-driver crash take the government to court for giving their child a licence to drive a car when, clearly, the child was not capable of doing so.

"When an authority such as VicRoads assumes the responsibility of checking whether a driver is capable of driving safely, through the Drive Test, and does not do so adequately, the authority has clearly failed to discharge its responsibility properly. It is called culpability."

But readers are also concerned about the attitudes of hoons and other aggressive 'Type A' drivers on the road.  "It may be worth telling your readers of the consequences of bad road manners in other countries," says Frank Hennessy, referring to an incident in Dubai when an Australia gave 'the finger' to an Arab driver.

"Locked up for 28 days. Then deported. That's not all - had to give up the home, two cars, and made the wife move back to Australia."  His verdict is straightforward and he wants the same sort of no-nonsense penalties in Australia.  "A pity we don't have the same sort of punishment here," says Hennessy.

For Watson, a bad attitude is still the result of poor training.  "Despite the many recent crashes causing loss of teenage lives, all the authorities seem to do is bemoan the fact that young people are driving stupidly, and discuss increasing penalties for irresponsible driving.  They overlook the fact that many of the young drivers who are killing themselves and their friends should not be driving," he says.

To prove his point, he has done an in-depth analysis of the requirements for obtaining a license, from training through to the actual Drive Test.  "The government puts the onus fairly and squarely on learner drivers or their families to obtain adequate driver training the best way they can before applying for their P plates. Nothing is available from the government in the way of formal training.

"Courses are offered by organizations such as Murcotts Driving Excellence or AAMI, but many families cannot afford them. Professional lessons from a driving school are another option, but they are also expensive, and in most cases this type of instruction is confined to teaching the finer points of passing the licence test rather than teaching basic skills."

Watson also worries about the current requirements for a minimum number of driving hours.  "Does the student get 120 hours of experience, or one hour of experience 120 times?," he asks.  What is Watson's solution? He wants proper training, but is not convinced it will happen.

"Cost is presumably the reason that there is no official procedure for formally training pre- P plate drivers. Revenue wise, it is far more attractive to gather traffic fines from motorists than to spend funds on the expensive infrastructure for young driver training.

Politically such training may also be a negative, because anything that delays the licencing  process or makes it more costly or difficult will be unpopular with young voters."

  • Poll

Comments on this story

Displaying 3 of 193 comments

  • Like anything, driving safely requires practice. I don't believe that there can ever be a zero road toll. When you allow people behind the controls of a fast moving, lethal object, there will (unfortunately) be cases of collisions, whether with other vehicles or static objects. What needs to be focused on is the (not just young) drivers who are driving in a manner that is much more likely to cause a collision. The Authorities are focusing too much on the minority of young drivers who cause collisions by driving irresponsibly, and barely focusing at all on the majority of safe drivers. Defensive Driving courses being made mandatory would be a fantastic idea. Teaching people how to 'control' an out-of-control vehicle could save lives, however, on the contrary, it could also enforce a sense of overconfidence in ones ability to do so.

    S.I. of Victoria Posted on 14 January 2012 9:50am
  • I run defensive driver courses and trying to get people to attend is like pulling teeth. But they b*tch when they get fined or caught by a speed camera? hmm. We all see the road toll and the sad stories but we don?t see that there was another 6000 people maimed for the rest of their lives. All new drivers and repeat traffic offenders should be made to attend defensive driving training. We have focused on speed cameras and more police which has not achieved anything. The people are the problem - the skills they have and their attitude to driving. It?s safer to go sky diving.

    WA Advanced Training Academy of Perth WA Posted on 23 November 2010 7:11pm
  • The advanced driver training courses that are held between Sydney and Melbourne should be mandatory nationwide. How to control a car on a skid pan being just one of the things taught.How to use power in a slide and control a vehicle without wiping someone else out or yourself.

    A.Thomas of Melbourne Posted on 18 August 2010 9:18pm
  • Driver training is inadequate. You are taught road rules, vehicle basics and nothing on vehicle handling and control. Having gained a pilot licence a few years back, aircraft control in all situations came first then rules and regs.Unfortunately its not just the young mainly males coming undone on our roads. Recently there has been a spate of accidents on country roads involving women, some with children on board, that may have tried to dodge an animal or just dropped off the edge of a sealed road momentarily .Resulting in loss of control their vehicle possibly for the first time, and unfortunately the last. I like alot of others was a bit of a hoon [and still am but these days on a race track] were lucky enough to have survived , had some close calls, and learnt some valuable handling skills but in the wrong way. It would have been far safer to be taught by an instructor in controlled conditions. Young lads will always want to test cars to the limit at some stage,driver training or not. But at least give them some basic skills. Also others with no hooning intensions may someday as mentioned above benefit. My children certainly will be taught advanced car control as a priority.

    A. Hadden of Adelaide Posted on 19 July 2010 11:40pm
  • The trouble is not the training they are receiving, it is a small minority of teens who know how to and CAN drive safely but choose not too. In my opinion this is not only an age thing but also an experience thing. Some people believe that they cannot be hurt and it is not until they or someone they love is in a serious crash that they start following the laws there to protect them. In these cases there is not much anyone can do, add more laws and they will break them, give them more training and they will ignore that too. The reason that it is teens dying is because that is the age people get their licences.

    K Knight of Tasmania Posted on 06 April 2010 10:35am
  • I would like to know what percentage of young drivers are dieing or having accidents on our roads compared to 20 or 30 years ago. If it was 5% or whichever back then and still only 5% now and we have twice as many drivers on the roads. Wouldn't simple arithmetic equate to twice as many accidents? So what are the real statistics, does anyone know???

    D Berry of Gold Coast Posted on 16 February 2010 2:50pm
  • I would like to know what percentage of young drivers are dying or having accidents on our roads compared to 20 or 30 years ago. If it was 5% or whichever back then and still only 5% now and we have twice as many drivers on the roads. Wouldn't simple arithmetic equate to twice as many accidents? So what are the real statistics, does anyone know???

    D Berry of Gold Coast Posted on 16 February 2010 1:32pm
  • I totally agree with Colin, it has in my opinion nothing to do with the power of the vehicle or the skill of the driver. A 13 year old buy took a knife to school yesterday and killed another 12 year old boy. He wasn't driving a car to kill someone.

    D Berry of Gold Coast Posted on 16 February 2010 8:34am
  • The 16 year old son of a friend with anti-social attitudes in just about every aspect of his personality, just got his Learner's Permit. A disaster in the making. He doesn't even care if he drives after drinking with his mates. The idea of being banned for three years if he is caught doesn't bother him. There are large numbers of dysfunctional teens getting licenses. These characters must be eliminated either at the time of application for a Learner's Permit, or when they are being tested for their first license. A Red P Plater with a skin-full of JB & Coke is an accident waiting to happen. Any psychologist could devise a questionnaire which would come up with a red light, and enable someone in authority to delay issue of the permit, or license for a year or more.

    Colin Spencer of Kangaroo Ground Victoria Posted on 11 February 2010 3:53pm
  • The biggest "power tool" an 18 to 21 year old will ever get their hands on has a track record of death and injury, on a huge scale. It costs billions of dollars for the nation to cope with this mayhem. Car makers have made an enormous effort to make cars safer, so the community must insist on higher standards of driver education than presently exist. These young people are our future skilled workers and we cannot afford to lose so many of them. For P Platers, we must set a strict standard of 100 kw engine limit. Smaller cars, less power, better all-round vision, better "feel" for the road, and a one passenger limit on top of all existing regulations. Tightening up the rules relating to motorcycles made a huge difference, although that regimen now needs to be further tightened. Education relating to driving ethics and responsibilities from age 16 onwards is also a vital element.

    Colin Spencer of Kangaroo Ground Victoria Posted on 11 February 2010 3:38pm
  • The young drivers do lack skills as we did 20 or more years ago. When I was learning we could get our license at 17 after 3 months of learning and then we went out driving in old underpowered cars. The real problem is that you can get hold of old Commodores or Falcons really cheap and these cars are notoriously dangerous in the wet and simply have too much power. The suspension by now is very worn which makes them even more dangerous. These cars have more power than V8's had 30 years ago and certainly far more power than any 6 cyl kingswood, valiant, xc falcon. Every time I see a fatality in the news it is more than likely an old Commodore or Falcon that has lost control - just look at the photo for this story - it's a commodore with pursuit wheels on the back (this is commonly done for burn outs). The road toll could be dramatically decreased by not allowing young drivers to drive anything other than low powered 4 cyl cars which by design will understeer. Unless you are a complete idiot a small front wheel drive is very safe to drive and still probably faster than cars of 20-30 years ago. Perhaps Ford & Holden should bow their heads in shame for making death draps so accessible.

    mongoose3800 of Canberra Posted on 11 February 2010 3:38pm
  • I believe, they have to make changes advanced driving courses should be compulsery. Also the mindset of drivers has to change this was something I have taken with me after doing a course over twenty years ago. 1 Never assume you have the right of way.If you do you could be dead right.Take in the Big Picture when you drive that means being alert to kids playing on a footpath Slowing down near pedestrian crossings. Be alert for cars coming straight out of side streets etc. Take these skills with you and you will have a very good chance of avoiding accidents.

    G.Bisset of Sydney Posted on 10 February 2010 9:41pm
  • Here's a simple question, how well did parents get trained to drive 20 or 30 years ago? My understanding is that training was far worse back then. Yes there are P platers who do not understand car control, and yes there are mothers in 4x4s in Toorak who don't understand it either, and grandparents who's limited site or strength makes them no safer. The only difference that I see is that younger drivers can/should improve with practice

    Ryan M of Bayswater, Vic Posted on 10 February 2010 2:53pm
  • For what my opinion is worth, I think it goes far beyond the driving skills. If people don't care for each other when walking down the street, why should they care anymore when they are driving on the road.

    D Berry of Gold Coast Posted on 10 February 2010 2:45pm
  • young drivers are idiots they will always be idiots. increase the driving age, or make the driving tests more realistic, test them on a vacated road, with fake pedestrians on the side of the road in all the conditions you experience as a driver...slippery conditions, at dawn & dusk when the sun is right in your eyes. make the driving sessions more realistic. Make them realise that they are operating a weapon, and realise that cars are not toys! Maybe equip them with some brains during the driving session.

    S Peters of Darwin NT Posted on 10 February 2010 10:09am
  • I watched the idiot on TV the other night 'Drifting' which after burnouts is the most idiotic thing I've seen, trying to make a car do something it is not designed to to do is worse than bad driving and should have the car confiscated and license suspended for 5 years when they apprehend the person.

    Graham de Longchamp of Wollongong area Posted on 09 February 2010 10:45pm
  • The problem is not hours or cars (because young drivers in the UK and USA can drive ANY car) but driver training, and I don't mean the number of hours L-platers have to do, but driver training courses. Young drivers need to learn how to drive defensively and get themselves out of sticky situations. But as always, it's the MINORITY ruining it for the MAJORITY! Just look at the P-plater whose car was struck with a plank of wood on the F3 (north of Sydney) the other day. She was applauded for the way she handled the situation! Every P-plate needs to be taught like that! And is it so hard to put your headlights on during overcast and rainy weather!? Far out it annoys the crap out of me! It's amusing that during the night almost everyone has their foglights on, and yet during rainy weather they don't have any lights on! What tools...

    Jake Williams of Sydney Posted on 08 February 2010 10:50pm
  • @Hoony McBurnout: NO!! dont do s**t like this... ppl like you are giving us 'P' platers bad names... something i get stuck with because of yobbos like you. i agree with: (i) raise the licence age to 21. (ii) if a driver in a turbo car is being an idiot, slap him with a yellow canary.. otherwise, leave turbo'd cars alone. turbos are ACTUALLY Helping by increasing fuel efficiency. look at the facts. and being turbo, the turbine is eating the bad hydrocarbons in the exhaust too.(iii) no V8's until 25. this is paramount. i see too many wasted lives because wankers like you are all over the place... (iv) no mobile phones AT ALL!! im sick of seeing ppl on mobile phones.... this causes accidents too!!

    Cypher of Good ol' SA Posted on 08 February 2010 10:48pm
  • Hoony McBurnout (6/2/10, 4.45pm), the level of arrogance and selfishness displayed in your post is beyond unbelievable. There is a massive difference between what a skydiver or BASE jumper does and people like you who get their thrills by driving recklessly on the road. Skydivers and BASE jumpers are only risking their own lives in a controlled environment? hoons such as yourself have the potential to kill or disable not only yourselves but also innocent bystander who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. To sit there and tell other road users we have to accept you ?doing what you love? at risk to our own lives shows your disgraceful and self-centred attitude. Everyone has the right to use the road without their safety being threatened by loose cannon drivers like you. If you live anywhere near a capital city, you have racetrack facilities available to you already ? if not then tough luck. Maybe you could campaign to get one built, but in the meantime accept that WE have a right to get to and from our destination safely.

    Matt of Brisbane Posted on 08 February 2010 3:09pm
  • Why are parents letting their kids buy or even drive high horsepower cars? Most of these cars are difficult to get insurance on for under 25's so maybe they shouldn?t be driving them until they are over 25? There?s no where near enough advanced training for drivers. International drivers licenses are transferable, different laws/driving experiences in different countries. The road conditions are terrible, things not signed properly, potholes, cheap crash barriers, etc Some older people who should not be behind the wheel, again things were different when they got their license. People who like to box others in, therefore create more risk... Etc End of the day road safety is everyone?s problem, respect the car, respect the road, respect your passengers, respect the public and most of all respect yourself. Driving is a privilege not a right.

    jay Posted on 08 February 2010 12:13pm
  • A very well written story. Please check out the Swedish Road Safety way of training and that they use SKIDCARS and skid pans for slippery surface training.

    DP of USA Posted on 08 February 2010 3:07am
  • Anyone and do 130km/h and crash into a pole....But its just the P-platers that make the news. Yes some can be just stupid but NOT all. People just need to know the limits of not only their cars but themselves as well... And what to do when things start to go wrong, if you don't know what to do when something goes wrong it will go from bad to worse...

    Matt Posted on 07 February 2010 9:10pm
  • Another 3 teenagers killed in Sydney, Sunday 7th Feb 2010, driving an XR6 Turbo!! How come we allow 19 year old kids drive cars with this much power? About time the laws are changed I think. How about Max. 2 Litre, 4 cylinders, maximum until at least 3-4 years driving experience and better education is the only way we can stop the carnage.

    Carlo of 2066 Posted on 07 February 2010 9:01pm
  • The safety aspects of driver training are just so inadequate. I got my license overseas where it is compulsory to do a circuit test plus a road test and pass both. Marks are deducted for every safety aspect which I do not see happening here. Getting a license here is just too easy. Rather than three years to get full license, just make the test more difficult to pass so learners have no choice but to put in the effort. Also many P drivers just "forget" what they have learnt once they pass and do not care about safety anymore. (if they do learn about it in the first place!) A difficult test is the way to go as all the driving skills, safety and training has to be in grind into a learner just in order to pass the first test. A pilot takes many hours of safety practical and theory training to get a licence but yet we are happy for young drivers to easily pass the driving test and put them behind what is potentially a very dangerous weapon to themselves and the public.

    Reiner Posted on 07 February 2010 3:16pm
  • There is no easy answer. 24 years ago when I learnt to drive, $1500 bought a 12 year old Toyota Corolla, 120Y or a Renault 12 or 16 as well as 15yr old Holdens and Fords. I learnt on and owned a Renault12 which certainly didn't have any surplus power to get me into trouble (tail spins/burnouts), handled well and stopped well. It also lacked airbags and anti-lock brakes. Old Holdens and Fords had the power, but most parents seemed to have more influence on their kids. There were very few powerful cars in the College car park and certainly nothing turbocharged or V8. Even base 1.5 litre Hyundai's, Mazda's etc have close to the power now that base kingswoods and falcons did in 1970, but one of the key things that I would make mandatory is that people MUST learn to driver in a manual car. It would also be worthwhile if we could ban drivers from driving an automatic until they were off their 'P's so they can hone their skills and coordination with a manual. People need to learn how to control their car, not just steer and brake it.

    Chris of Canberra Posted on 07 February 2010 9:22am
  • I truly hope we can institute driver training and road manners at primary school as a start. To drive is a privilage and not a right, not all can get a pilots licence after all. We have lost the aussie ability of a wave and a smile on the road. Courtesy is largely dead and sadly our newer drivers show disdain to others. Adults particularly women in 4 wd's seem to be invincible, cyclists abuse you if you don't give them right of way and trucks intimidate on the highways. Taxi drivers live in another world stop where they want and do u turns when it suits. To me we have to start all over and instill courtesy followed by the skills. Fines and a cop on every corner wont cure the problem, we are already over governed now. Speed alone cant kill, people kill.Cars cant kill silly unskilled invincible people do however. If you want to race get a CAMS license go to the track. Our roads might be better then.

    Sydney driver of Sydney Posted on 07 February 2010 8:45am
  • Us hoons dont think we are invincible, its just that we dont really care if we die doing what we love. Just ask any sky diver or base jumper and they will tell you the same thing. If you dont like us on the road, give us a public racetrack, in the mean time accept that we do what we love.

    Hoony McBurnout Posted on 06 February 2010 4:45pm
  • There are far too many distractions within the cars nowadays. Mobile phones, mp3 players, SatNav, sometimes other teenage passengers. Life in general is just to much focussed on electonic gadgets, and their brains are not "programmed" for the attention needed while driving a car!

    TheRealist of Oz Posted on 05 February 2010 7:23pm
  • It is an attitude thing. I am invincible I can do invincible things, but when extreme things go wrong there are extreme consequences.

    Brian Posted on 05 February 2010 12:10pm
  • -Yes people must be fluent in english to drive a car in Oz. If they are not they wouldn't be able to ccritcaly important signs like "WRONG WAY GO BACK." But i see learner training cars with foreign signwriting on them for people who cannot read english. -My sister passed P plate test with a tiny 6 hrs experience. -Make race tracks public to keep hoons on the track instead of the road. -Power limiting just wont work these days since even the most boring of cars, the toyota aurion has over 200kw. Yes most new cars are powerful.

    kaygas of melbourne Posted on 04 February 2010 8:53pm
  • for years and years gone by young blokes have always wanted to "see what we can get out of her " referring to their car" and nothing has changed. One answer enact a law that all driver, say under 25 have their vehicle max speed governed to 85 k.m.h. or face a jail term if they broke this law. Ray of Brisbane.

    Ray Posted on 04 February 2010 7:04pm
  • Is not lack of skill only the reason for what happening to the young people and some of not so young,on the road, is the sense of responsibility and the consequence of such behavio. Teach the kids to be responsible for they actions and then we going to enjoy they life a little more longer without so much paint and trauma. The driving license it suppose to be obtain after 12 month of course at the Tafe college, like any other heavy machinery license. If you love you kids, think about this.

    Ricardo of Brisbane of Brisbane Posted on 04 February 2010 12:54pm
  • There is a great need for young people to practice emergency braking and collission avoidance related skids and slides in a controlled arena. As well as providing entertainment for young people, who for the most part are obviously keen to try these skids and slides, it would educate them of measures to take in order to avoid turning a skid or slide into an accident, and to avoid entering into a skid or slide initially.

    John of Qld Posted on 03 February 2010 7:55pm
  • Over-population is a major problem in many civilisations around the world. Society needs to reintroduce a higher level of risk in daily life in order to restore a ballance. If we continue to wrap every person in cotton wool and protect them from every conceivable danger society will weaken and eventually fail. People need to learn some lessons for themselves sometimes, without the government mandating they do so.

    jack of QLD Posted on 03 February 2010 7:50pm
  • Late to the party, so no doubt repeating some others here...driving skills are lacking in every age group, not just the young. And when the ability is lacking in the teachers, what hope the learner? The runof the mill "get your license here" driving schools add to the problems. Driving tests and tuition need to be elevated to pilot license status. Many hours of proper training by highly qualified instructors learning all aspects of the craft including emergency recovery and fundamental mechanics. Then requalify every license renewal or 5 years whichever the lesser.

    Tony of nul Posted on 03 February 2010 4:14pm
  • I've been involved in motorsport from a very early age, and without having learned on a tractor on a farm, moving to a go kart and then later to a autocross bunky, I don't think I would have had the necessary tools to obtain my license. Driving is more than parking straight, and finding a house on a street and doing a 3 point turn in its drive way. Where's the controlling a slide test? Where's the emergency braking test? I don't think being tested on how you handle a hill start quite cuts the mustard. But mustard is expensive, isn't it Mr Polly? Its much better to just hand out weetbix licenses and then create a myriad of "driving offenses" to earn all the mustard for yourselves, eh? By the way, I would be happy to re-sit a comprehensive driving test if it meant the whole nation had to be re-evaluated.

    Aaron Laves of Perth Posted on 03 February 2010 3:02pm
  • I being a P-plate driver do not think that the testing is adequate and should be upgraded to be able to teach young drivers about how incidents in a car should be negotiated and dealt with, i.e. the way to control a spinning car on a wet road at 100km/h, many other countries around the world such as Sweden make there young drivers spend a good deal of time on a skid-pan learning how to control a car in a full spin, which is why they produce some of the best drivers in the world. And also take the point of my two younger sisters coming through which will both be going for their learner permits at the same time and placing a lot of strain on my parents to be able to get their required 120hours of driving each. The strain of this is not helped out in anyway by a government subsidy and living only 10mins from anything we generally require it will take a lot of trips to be able to acquire the necessary hours without unnecessarily driving somewhere for 2 hours and back again. An increase on the technical aspect of the driving test needs to be increased and a proving ground of the drivers abilities when it comes to controlling a car is what is necessary, not more hours

    Nick Murphy of NSW Posted on 03 February 2010 11:47am
  • As most Authority Figures within our society knows all too well, sport is the 'Perfect Vehicle' to promote a given subject. This also would include Motorsport: the Ford verses Holden battles which are heavily promoted to anybody with a TV, which I suspect is a catalyst for young drivers to copy their heroes- the Mark Skaifes, Craig Loundes and others who smilingly promote their speeed as a safe sport! What is the result which rubs-off on young gullible car drivers who believe they're as capable as their heroes? Look at the annual Bathurst 1000 car races, and tell me that such venues do not encourage young drivers to believe that speeding is perfectly okay. This is how I felt 30 + years ago, and I figure othersmight feel similarly.

    Evan Williams of Sunshine Coast - QLD Posted on 03 February 2010 11:42am
  • Skills on the road are developed reasonably quickly. Any fool can steer a car and with automatics and synchromesh, the need for ability to change gears well is no longer required. Remember when proficiency at changing gears used to be considered the 'hallmark' of a good driver? Performance on the road is entirely another matter. Drivers who think they are brilliant and fireproof are the major menace. Driving under the influence adds another dimension. Fangio once wrote that he had little fear on the race track. His biggest fear was on the road amongst drivers who were trying to emulate him.

    Stewart Beveridge of Alexandra Hills. Queensland. Posted on 03 February 2010 10:06am
  • The only way it's going to change is for all of us to start leaning on our elected representatives. Make them earn their fat packages.

    Holden Caulfield of Sydney Posted on 03 February 2010 9:49am
  • I have been driving for forty odd years, most of it in semi's and I am still learning new things everyday as things change. I think the biggest problem with the youth of today is that they have played that many games of driving with no repercussions, that I am sure that when they get their license they think that they can drive properly with no experience. I've got my license I can drive attitude.

    Jeff Carruthers of nsw Posted on 03 February 2010 9:42am
  • I agree that its not all about training, I tried and tried to help my teenager understand the potential conseqquences of his testosterone fuelled stupidity when behind the wheel, he managed to keep his lic for 11 weeks before losing it, in that 11 weeks he virtually trashed his car, ran off the road more than once, bogged out partying, drives like an idiot etc etc. My point is, what do you do about 17-24 year old boys????? Any other cause of the number of deaths we are seeing in young people would cause an uproar. At the very least, lets see the law step in and get serious...lifetime bans for hoons and some more strict use of the laws we already have in place for starters. I want to be clear, I dont believe in a nanny state, I am in no way talking about power or speed restrictions...they dont work. All I want to see is some measures which might discourage the suicidal behaviour we all see too regularly on our roads. And whilst I am at it, lets get some of the silly old fools who still cling onto their licensce OFF the road as well, they are REALLY dangerous!

    Lance Christie of Townsville Posted on 03 February 2010 9:19am
  • Over confidence is said of the reason advanced driving courses are not mandatory for new drivers. There will always be an element of this with certain young drivers but the majority would benefit hugely. Most average drivers do not understand the dynamics of a car, they should. I have always driven to the conditions and have a passion for driving at 63 most 30 year olds have never experienced. What legistlators never address is that motoring should be an enjoyable experience, give us some pride in the skills we have to control a car properly, today they seem to want to make us feel guilty before we turn the key. Constant checking of our speed to ensure we don't get booked takes most of the enjoyment out of driving. Here in Tasmania I have been astounded at the incompetence and laziness of the drivers, where indicators seem to be optionalal & lane drift on bends is acceptable. Training, so this sort of stuff is deemed unacceptable from day one is necessary. Try this, drive at all times with daylight headlights, be seen, pull over if you are holding 5+ cars up on the open road, frustration leads to impatience leads to risk taking & get trained in car control & defensive driving

    Gerry H of Hobart Posted on 03 February 2010 8:29am
  • The whole problem with the young drivers comes back to 1 Driver Training, Parents put your kids in a kart an a proper kart track with someone who can drive so they learn how much skill they lack where they can learn what happens when they try to corner too fast or brake too hard without them being injured by objects beside the road or on coming trucks. Will this stop them driving fast probably not but they will do so more responsibility and safety.2 Governments regulating everyday life have a lot to answer for. They try to make life so safe no one learns to take responsibility for their own actions because they don't get to do thinks that hurt eg fall off swing or slippery dip as if poor "johnny" comes a cropper and gets hurt someone else must be negligent therefore remove any play equipment that can cause injury. As a result of this mentality kids no longer learn that if they dont look after their own safety the may feel pain.3 Too many computer nintendo ps etc games teach kids there are no consequences to crashing while driving at high speed. So parents wake up your kids need accept their actions may cause them pain long before they are able to find out driving.

    Kevin Romero of NSW Posted on 03 February 2010 12:55am
  • The way we train young people how to obtain their license need to change and followed by the european model excluding UK where. The system I am referring to is still in place in Germany and I got my license in 1981 for life. To be a trainer you need to go to Tafe to obtain TAA. To be a trades person you need to got to tafe also and do your course as many trades if not learned properly can kill people. When it come to obtaining a license any one can train on the practical part. The system in place in europe requires the student to got to a licensed driving school and attend Theory lessons once or twice a week or more. At the end of ech lesson there is a test and only if the test comes out 100% the student is allowed to do practical driving lessons with that school. Once the driving instuctor is confident that the student can go for the test he will book her/him in for a practical driving test. This system is more training orientated and leaves mum, dad and grand parents out of the occasion. Because if the teacher did not learn properly it will be past on. The system works in Germany with 90 million people and speed on some areas being over 200Km. it cost more but it would save lives.

    Uwe Gessner of Bli Bli QLD Posted on 02 February 2010 11:54pm
  • Everyone blames a lack of training. Most impressions on training seem to focus on getting out of trouble and responding to emergencies. Real training revolves around preventing crashes. They are not ACCIDENTS (and the sooner the Government removes all references to ACCIDENT from legislation and Statutory bodies the better) They are crashes; preventable collisions.Whether that be by slowing down, not hooning, not showing off, not driving the car you shouldn't, not believing that every hero worshiping article in car mags and guides about the next big V8 or turbo. Anti social driving behaviour occurs because nothing at present reinforces consequences to actions. If you get your car back after 3 days so what? If all you get is a piddly fine so what? Immature minds with a lack of reasoning skills (and the rest of us for that matter) need sufficient assistance by real education (not just showing crash scenes) and real punishments and deterrents. Punish the recidivists properly and perhaps the smart kids might learn too..Very few seem to treat their license as a privilege, so treat this attitude accordingly. Then my colleagues and I can stop dealing with young nearly dead ex heroes.

    Stretcher Bearer of Surrey Hills Posted on 02 February 2010 11:01pm
  • bob watson is talking through his hat. its not the training that is the problem. its the attitude of the drivers. you can see plenty of average drivers on the road but they choose to drive within their limits. can you remember when you were young and thought you could go around corners faster and you were totally competent but after a few near misses or small accidents you learnt otherwise and modified you behaviour. well there is a certain type of driver who will never obey rules or listen to advise. fines or loss of car will not deter them. they will drive unlicensed etc. you have to educate them when they are young. unfortunately there a families who we shall call feral who did not known better and cannot teach their children how to live responsibly in a modern society. the challenge is to help the children through school because their parents are incapable of showing a good example to their children.

    Les Lesniewski of Melbourne Posted on 02 February 2010 10:45pm
  • Accidents will always happen but young drivers do not have the experience to minimise the impact and damage. Driver training should be aimed at making safe drivers who know what to do in an emergency, not just teach young people to pass the driving test.

    Linda E of Qld Posted on 02 February 2010 10:41pm
  • It is not skills which young drivers lack, it is judgment. We all remember (dimly) how fast our reactions used to be, how fast we learned new skills and how confident (overly) we were in exercising our new freedoms. The thing we in our youth lacked, just as new drivers do today, is practice, but we learned that on-the-road judgment in far less lethal times. The call for more formal, professionally managed training hours as a prerequisite for a P-license is fully justified. And by the way, we "mature" drivers should remember that our experience and judgment may be exemplary, but age does decay our skills and capabilities and the other big factor in tragic road statistics is the older age driver. PS: there is no such thing as an "accident" on the road (barring kangaroo strike!)

    J Williamson of Melbourne Posted on 02 February 2010 10:31pm
  • Ellen, sorry, but I disagree. Yes, there are a lot of P platers and oldies out there that think they are invincible, but there are even more that are sensible and courteous on the road. The closest I have come to an accident was always when someone didn't look and pulled out or tried to merge, or when I was being harassed. I was only harassed on my P plates), especially when I was driving my Holden EH. Not only by the typical stereotypes, but everybody. I have come across some roads that aren't that great, but with the right skills as well as due diligence and care an accident should not happen anywhere. Even if traveling over the speed limit. Which brings me to my next point. Speed limits are arbitrary - set by somebody to keep the lowest common denominator from killing themselves. I know of many, many roads that could have the limit raised by even 30-40kph, and some that the limit should be lowered by the same. Speeding, as in exceeding the speed limit, is a joke. However, speeding, as in exceeding the conditions/roads, vehicles or drivers limits is very dangerous. Accidents can happen, but most are caused by the driver. Get the right skills and pay attention, and crashes stop.

    Nate of Coffs Posted on 02 February 2010 10:22pm
  • Gees Kaygas, that is a stupid statement. Not being able to read english does not mean that you don't understand signs, a you'll kill people. A sign is just a sign. Einstein was not English. If they can't read road signs then they cannot pass the L-plate test.

    King Charlie of Marung Posted on 02 February 2010 9:41pm
  • Hands up from you who had driving lessons on the freeway before you got your license, not many I bet. How many of you sit there and shake your head when you see some one drive though a red light to save a few seconds on a trip? My point is that if you don't teach your children the facts of life and death on the roads, they will assume it's their god given right to copy everybody else's driving habits, good or bad. We live on a busy corner where the traffic is heavy with trucks, buses and cars. Hoons speed up this street with immunity and only get caught when they exceed 100 k's an hour down a 50 zone, because the complaints finally prompt the police to do something about. We make an average of $600 a year in spotters fees from the towies because of the accidents, and it might sound heartless but we ring the tow trucks first and then walk out with a phone to see if the emergency services are needed. We've had roll overs, people asleep fly thought he air when they hit the traffic islands, a woman pull out in front of a bus and got crushed, rear enders are common. The cars that speed past us at night doing well over a 100 kph in a 70 kph zone is so regular. Abosuletly no pity.

    Chris of perth Posted on 02 February 2010 9:37pm
  • When we were kids we had a healthy respect for the law. These days kids get taught their "rights" not respect. Perhaps if they were more fearful of the law they would drive more reservedly...

    Mark S Posted on 02 February 2010 9:31pm
  • I agree with most comments which conclude, in the main, that accidents can happen to any driver. However, young drivers, who have the least experience, are the ones who have/cause the most accidents. Extra training MAY help to overcome this.

    Rob of Brisbane Posted on 02 February 2010 8:43pm
  • Its a shame,for the parents,children,brothers and sisters,aunties uncles,and grandparents that are left with the grief to deal with.When these drivers think they own the road,they are invincible.The cars themselves are so powerful.Why would you drive a car that can go 180 and up to 240klms an hour,it really is ridiculous.Can you really protect people from themselves?

    Pat of South Australia Posted on 02 February 2010 8:38pm
  • I think that driving schools/instructors have to carry some of the blame as like Dick Johnston I believe that the pupils are taught to operate a set of controls and pass a test, not to DRIVE as such, it may also help if young drivers were limited to a smaller engine size say 2 liter whilst on a provisional license, but even then you can get into big trouble, as the speed camera's do nothing except raise revenue, if they worked maybe these young drivers would still be alive, but these young men and women are full of bravado and tend to think they are indestructible,one has to hope that thing will change, meanwhile I will continue to drive defensively.

    Cedric Williamson of Kilsyth. Posted on 02 February 2010 8:27pm
  • Unfortunately I have seen what a driver with his license for 2 hours can do, which is overtake a truck blindly and hit someone on a motor bike who lost later lost his leg below the knee, the P plater was not injured. This is just one incident in many things that I have witnessed over a 20 plus years in nursing & ambulances. Young drivers should have the same restrictions as motor bike riders do & do a 2 day course to get their Learners then another couple of days to get their "P" plates at least this for new drivers. The worst part of this is only a small number of P platers are a problem the majority are ok.

    Ian of Newcastle Posted on 02 February 2010 8:24pm
  • The Poll questions are very poor and guaranteed to give a non representative result. Very few will respond to the "Yes perfectly satisfactory" leading to a majority No. Seriously it's not just learners driving badly. Attitudes and skills have degenerated and lost value across the board. 130hrs instruction in NSW is way more than enough but is it adequate? No! because there is no focus to it. Professional instruction is not encouraged or sufficiently weighted. My daughter spent the majority of her time averaging <20km/hr on Spit Rd, useless. Luckily we also gave her time on a farm and some professional time to learn car control and consequences.

    S.Nash of Sydney Posted on 02 February 2010 8:21pm
  • first of all, young drivers are driving cars with way to much horse power. Lower the horse power rate so the car don't take off so quick! Also i grew up in the country on a farm and learnt to drive in the mud, rain, dirt and it save me a few times as i knew what to do. The city kids just hit the brakes and hit whats in front of them. The new cars with all the airbags give a false sense of security that they will survive a crash.They help but don'[t stop serious accidents. Tuffen the laws right up and if they break them make them walk for a longer time and impound the car the whole time they cant drive . Tuff if they complain. At least they will be alive!!!!!

    lee of bendigo Posted on 02 February 2010 8:18pm
  • The training is inadequate, it is designed to pass the test, not produce responsible drivers. Now we have not-so-young drivers on the road from this inadequate training, filling the roads with aggressive, ill-prepared "King-of-the-Road" who drive not to get booked, while driving safely is ignored.

    Wayne Eddy Posted on 02 February 2010 8:17pm
  • Are you lot raving mad? It's got little do with training. Driving a car and observing the road rules is easy, isnt it? Of course it is. However the person behind the wheel with the foot on the gas pedal is not so easy to train to make sensible decisions. It's poor choices that cause accidents.

    Craig Secombe Posted on 02 February 2010 7:36pm
  • People who disregard the laws and drive beyond their ability and conditions will always wind up wrapped around trees no matter what hair brain knee jerk laws are created. The lack of skill is the inability to make mature decisions, in this case where personal safety is at risk.

    Craig Secombe Posted on 02 February 2010 7:29pm
  • One problem is where young drivers receive adequate training in modern driving school cars, and their parents late model vehicles, with features like traction control and ABS, once they are licensed they get into the cheap car they can afford and it's lacking the modern features leaving everything that happens governed by their newly acquired skills, sadly they are in for some shocking realities once on their own in real traffic. Yes there will always be the idiot who never learns but sadly it's not always the driver it's the training.

    Kevin Anderson of Brisbane Posted on 02 February 2010 6:50pm
  • Attitude as well as driving skills need to be taught and these should be commenced at school by qualified trainers including Police, after all most children ride bicycles therefore they need to be trained on all aspects of using our roads.

    Peter T of Perth Posted on 02 February 2010 6:48pm
  • why cant we put drivers ed. into the education systems of our schools? Education and driving experience might help. Put the kids on skid pan and show them what happens to a vehicle in different condtions under the supervision of an expert.

    mic of of melb Posted on 02 February 2010 6:36pm
  • Absolutely Terrible to see the loss of life on our roads, what is the Answer??? no -one knows.....as they say you can`t put an old head on young shoulders,unfortunately they will learn the hard way...Just like the young learner mtorbike rider i witnessed the other day,Shorts ,singlet,thongs doing at least 100kmh in a 60-70kmh speed zone weaving and wheelstanding "INVINCIBLE!!"

    J.Nilssen of shoalhaven Posted on 02 February 2010 6:31pm
  • The training is hopefully in adequate. Yes it teachs you how to get from A to B, but there is no defensive driving, no attitude skills, and even less general car knowledge. Half the people i've talked to don't even know the difference between FWD and RWD cars, and here we are wondering why people die when their cars loose control. Defensive driving schools should be mandatory, knowing what happens when one looses control is going to reduce the amount of people trying to find out (the hard way). We also need accessible and/or organised "hoon" events where young adults who want to try their stuff can do so without putting other public at hightened risk.

    bear of newcastle Posted on 02 February 2010 6:19pm
  • 120 hours or 200 won't change anything. 20 hours with professional instructor should be sufficient to learn basics skills, rest is experience gathered during driving. If a student is taught by someone who drives once or twice a week to church or shopping mall what can we expect of a student. If the teacher doesn't know how to drive properly ( and we can see this every day), how we can expect the student to be taught properly. The "P" plates should be abolish, "P" platers fill intimidated by the "P" sigh they have to displace and need to proof to rest of us (drivers) how good they are, we on other hand look at them as the are small kids. If they got the linseed that mean they know how to drive and should be treated like rest of drivers. No one can and will stop young people from speeding, we should start education in primary school, where kids will learn what can be dangerous on the road, they should be shown what can happen in any situation or and if the drivers are under influence of alcohol or drugs. Education is the only solution to what is happening on our roads not extra 20, 50 or 100 hours more.

    Piotr Kabala of Bow Bowing NSW Posted on 02 February 2010 5:43pm
  • It is not just young drivers, it is drivers of all ages, sex and race. More than 80% of drivers on our road are not capable of DRIVING a car - they know how to POINT a car, but when something goes wrong they cant recover from it. The government and police know this, however it would be political suicide to make it tougher for people to get and keep a license. Instead, we rely on computers to take over - compulsory ESC - and accept that there will always be a road toll. Fining everyone who drives 2 km/h over the limit wont solve anything except a budget deficit!

    Old School Driver of Victoria - The Nanny State Posted on 02 February 2010 5:36pm
  • My sister got her MANUAL licence on a grand total of 6hrs on her L Plates. The system is a disgrace. There needs to be mandatory advanced driver training. The other disgrace is people being able to get there license when they cannot speak English. It's a scary thought to think we share the road with people who cant read road signs.

    kaygas of melbourne Posted on 02 February 2010 5:00pm
  • Unfortunately there's nothing can be done to stop the carnage on the roads. Changing the age,learner's process e.g. advanced driving instruction, scare tactics e.g graphic photos won't make any difference. Young drivers (& a lot of older drivers)are invincible (in their minds) & believe the road rules were make by silly oldies & all the P-plate restrictions don't mean a thing (it's their right to drive!!). There is nothing wrong with the roads- thousands drive along them every day-but it just takes someone who's speeding or not being attentive to kill themselves or their passengers. Most speed limits are there because someone with advanced driving skills decided that was the safest speed to drive on that section of the road. As is said "Drive to the conditions" Driving is affected by many variables-the type of car (big or small) & it's condition, the weather, time of day (day/night)other drivers & distractions e.g. passengers. Driving is a task that requires complete & undivided attention & always expect the unexpected. Accidents are caused by the driver & no one else.

    Ellen S of Perth Posted on 02 February 2010 4:48pm
  • You can have all the training in the world and still be involved in an accident. There has always been an issue with young drivers and there always will be. The thing is, it's just not young drivers. Anyone that decides that doing their hair or answering the phone is more important than paying attention to actually driving their vehicle is trying very hard to become a statistic.

    Bob Millington Posted on 02 February 2010 4:45pm
  • Most young drivers lack the skills and experience because the ones with the experience are dead.!!

    jeffe of victoria Posted on 02 February 2010 4:43pm
  • Education and training are the only way we are going to bring down the under 25?s road toll. I have been fortunate enough to have had a variety of driver training experiences in my youth; they firstly taught me how quickly you can lose control of a vehicle and panic, causing more loss of control. Secondly they gave me a respect for how dangerous motor vehicles can be in the hands of inexperienced and over confident young drivers. With governments putting restriction on V8 and Turbo vehicles for P plate driver, this does nothing to stop young drivers from speeding, a 4 cylinder micro is still capable of travelling at dangerous speeds and causing death. In Australia a driver?s licence is seen as a right of passage and not something that is to be treasured and earned. Testing needs to include the ability to avoid accidents and react to a loss of control. Also the fitment of speed regulators on P plate vehicles with a downloadable history of the driver?s speed being available via the vehicles ECU. For a P plate driver to gain a full licence thier driving history would be presented via the ECU print out. My own children will be attending Driver training courses without fail.

    Paul N of Gosford Posted on 02 February 2010 4:25pm
  • All the training in the world wont change the teenage evaluation of risk. This is managed by the frontal lobe of the brain which does not mature till much later in life. A particular study involved two groups, teenagers and one mature group. these were shown a variety of situations and asked to stomp on a pad (right or left) depending on whether it was risky(left) or not risky(right). Almost all of the situations shown, the teenagers scored as no risk where as the mature group scored quite the opposite. The reason for this is that the mature group had a more developed frontal lobe as shown by scans. the teenage scans gave clear evidence of an undeveloped frontal lobe.

    Nic Norton of Brisbane Posted on 02 February 2010 4:15pm
  • Bob Watson is spot on with his comments..... A drivers licence entitles you to drive a car but unfortunately is no guarantee that you actually can. Driver training as ist stands is a joke as its aimed at getting you past the low barriers to getting a licence. 120 hours is simply not enough to give anyone the skills to control 2tonne of metal at speeds up to 100kmh...at night or in the rain or on narrow country roads. Why car control and driving skills are not part of our school education process is beyond me! We teach kids woodwork or art or other life skills but not driving or car control skills. We have lots of noise from government about all this but instead of the big stick approach... how about better roads, early training of drivers, teaching of the effects of alcohol and drugs, sensible vehicle restrictions conditions (look at the bike LAMS scheme as an example) and a driving test that shows you can control a car, that is you actually can drive a car. And if that all takes 200 or 300 or more hours of documented training and acquisition of skills...so be it. A drivers licence is not a right...you have to earn it!

    Ian of Moorabbin Posted on 02 February 2010 3:46pm
  • Everybody complains about the level of taxes we pay, the poor state of our schools, health system and public transport, the shortage of police and other services but as soon as something needs to be done for their kids, they want the government to pay for it too. Enough is enough and it is time people started covering their own expenses. If you want YOUR child taught how to drive correctly, then YOU foot the bill instead of expecting everyone else to pay it for you. YOU should be the one worrying whether the police are going to knock on your door with the dreaded message so YOU should be the one doing all you can to prevent that knock on the door. I have covered the cost of teaching my kids to drive safely so why should I also have to pay for yours?

    Gra not of Sydney Posted on 02 February 2010 3:45pm
  • Lack of any feeling of responsibility is a result of today's over pampered society, and is also reflected in the attitude towards driving that is apparent today. Driving schools, in general, seem to take the same approach too, where passing the test is the main objective, rather than teaching defensive driving skills, and consideration for other road users. The roads continue to get busier as well,as the population increases, and seem to be deteriorating quite rapidly; especially the country roads, which I visualise as soon becoming little more than a collection of overcrowded patchwork tracks across the country. The popular government approach of financially punishing drivers will do nothing to improve this situation. Poorer, busier roads. Poor driver attitude. Ergo more accidents!

    Antony J. of Victor Harbor Posted on 02 February 2010 3:45pm
  • There is no real solution to young people killing themselves on the road. It is all in their attitude and mindset. "F you Jack I'm alright". If that can be changed so will the driving skills problem. Another hassle is "why should I drive carefully they are'nt?". If every one just followed the rules, showed some common sense and demonstrated some respect for their own lives and vehicles and other peoples lives and property, perhaps the current road trauma problems would almost cease to exist!

    Paul of Wangaratta Posted on 02 February 2010 3:42pm
  • Kids today need to have some Advance Driver style classes under their belt before they can gain their provisional license and be put in some situations that are potentially dangerous, partly to deter them from getting into the situation on the road and also to train them in what to do in that scenario. The written test should have some serious questions and scenariois on respect for other road users that must be passed to gain licence.

    Sharon of Sydney Posted on 02 February 2010 3:42pm
  • Lack of any feeling of responsibility is a result of today's over pampered society, and is also reflected in the attitude towards driving that is apparent today. Driving schools, in general, seem to take the same approach too, where passing the test is the main objective, rather than teaching defensive driving skills, and consideration for other road users. The roads continue to get busier as well,as the population increases, and seem to be deteriorating quite rapidly; especially the country roads, which I visualise as soon becoming little more than a collection of overcrowded patchwork tracks across the country. The popular government approach of financially punishing drivers will do nothing to improve this situation. Poorer, busier roads. Poor driver attitude. Ergo more accidents!

    Antony J. of Victor Harbor Posted on 02 February 2010 3:35pm
  • Despite government lies and deception, speed is NOT the cause of most of our road accidents and they know it. But, governments are addicted to speed camera and police radar/laser revenue, so there will be little change. If governments were genuinely serious, driver education would be the PRIMARY focus, instead of developing revenue strategies. If speed was the major problem, speed cameras would have fixed the probelm, yet the problem remains. However the government has gained a great stream of income. Make advanced driver courses mandatory. Puppets like Ken Lay annoy me, as he is insulting our intelligence by parrotting on about the same rubbish every week which he already knows is rubbish. Like most problems, increased education and skills are what is needed, not fleecing people $136 dollars for driving 6km/h over what are often inapropriately set speed limits.

    CQ Posted on 02 February 2010 3:35pm
  • There is no one reason for accidents just as there is no one thing that can be done to prevent them. Accidents arise out of a combination of lack of experience, poor decision making,youthfulness,lack of respect for others,poor training ,dangerous roads (surrounds) and so forth. I'm sure you can think of more. I had an exchange of letters with the SA Gov over road safety which left me unhappy. They are locked in on speed being the culprit.They feel their system of Licensing more than adequate. Their answer seems to be label anyone under the age of 25 a hoon in the making and increase the penalties.I did suggest that more actual(not Sim on a PC) driving instruction including time on a skid pan would help there being nothing quite as instructive as actually feeling what its like to lose control and become a passenger in an 1700Kg lump of metal. They promptly rubbished that suggesting it had been tried in some Scandinavian Countries where it failed.I looked up the reports,yes advanced driving instruction failed because lack of driver experience but then they changed the course so as to demonstrate "loss of control" safely and that apparently had good results. Well I could go on but ..!

    denisj of adelaide Posted on 02 February 2010 3:25pm
  • Yes, young drivers lack some skills and experience but, more importantly, they lack full development of their brain, specifically the section that covers the consequence of risk taking. It is not possible to speed up that development and more will certainly die and injure themselves; this is reality.

    Tony Wells of Sydney Posted on 02 February 2010 3:01pm
  • Why is it not feasible or economically acceptable to simply limit the power of the cars we allow our learners and newer drivers to drive, it's been done in the motorcycle community for years. Surely if we give someone a car without the power to be driven in a dangerous manner it limits the desire or eagerness to be driven in that manner. Why, in the name of all things holy, do we allow someone to drive a car with more power than most experienced drivers could handle, (or ever need). Why could a 17 year old possibly need anything that has performance approaching that of a rally car, give me a cohesive argument that justifies any V8 or turbo petrol powered motor for someone with limited skills and knowledge. We seem to accept the fact that those on 2 wheels should be limited in power until they can prove they can handle that power, WHY dont we accept that those on 4 wheels need the same simple limits imposed for their own sake

    mb of Brisbane Posted on 02 February 2010 2:59pm
  • It is not just about the testing and hours of driving. Probationers should ONLY be allowed to drive standard 4 cyclinder cars. When they reach the age of 25 then a defensive driving course must be completed and passed to upgrade to a 6 cyclinders. No car should have speedos that go over 120km. Any other car that can go over 120km is only allowed to be used at driving ranges or schools. All license testing should include defensive driving, practise sessions on different surfaces, weather and senerios

    Karen S of Ballarat Posted on 02 February 2010 2:47pm
  • Guess what guys, you and me as parents we could do something about teaching our youth how to drive safely and courteously. We are role models for our youth, if behave well or badly they will follow suit. Show them how to respect the road rules by setting a good example to your kids and they will copy it. Likewise, show them how to be a bad driver and they will copy you. Now isn't that simple.

    Paul Posted on 02 February 2010 2:43pm
  • (i) Raise the license age to 21. (ii) Until age 25 low hp cars. (iii)2nd speeding fine (over a certain speed limit)confiscate car and licence for 3 months. (iv) 3rd speeding fine (over a certain speed limit) confiscate car permanently & licence for 12 months. (v) Compulsory driver training course. Hit them where it hurts and maybe, just maybe, it may save some lives.

    Lawrence Molachino Posted on 02 February 2010 2:38pm
  • The road laws for P platers and Learners are an absolute disgrace. Go back to the old laws. No point system for them, they get caught then take them off the road. Make it mandatory for them to have lessons with an instructor before they get to take the tests.Parents teaching their kids all their own bad habits is a major problem. Retest everyone after either 5 or 10 years. Yes it will cost a lot but what is the price of a life? I'm amazed how some people are still allowed to drive when clearly they should not be in charge of a motor vehicle ! Either thru age or that they just cant drive ! Learners should not be allowed to learn in SUV's. Will they be driving their own Porsche Cayenne when they get their license? Or a BMW X5 ? More than likely not, it will be a small cylinder car because they are not allowed to drive one when they get their license,so why teach them in one???? Ridiculous. Driver training and experience is everything. Make the fines and punishment a lot harsher and maybe, just maybe, new drivers will learn to RESPECT the road and other users.

    Franco of Adelaide Posted on 02 February 2010 2:31pm
  • when are the people going to learn properly how to drive, if they don't go to proper driving schools, and also why is it that they can't mechanically stop all cars from going faster than the speed in the area where they are used, also as long as the cars is sold by the fact of how fast they are instead of how safe they are,there's never going to be any reduction in accidents. A CAR IS A WEAPON TEACH OWNERS AND DRIVERS TO USE THEM RESPONSIBLY OR FACE THE CONSEQUENCES

    Erik Ostrup-Rasmussen Posted on 02 February 2010 2:24pm
  • I work within the Transport industry and I see Young Drivers getting their licence for the first time. Whether that be a 'Learners' or 'Provisional'. Majority (not all) of the Young Drivers I see appear to lack majurity and common sense, which I think is what they take onto our roads. I believe also they have limited concentration span, most opt for a automatic licence as they believe this to be easier when passing a driving test. Maybe this contributes to the lack of concentration required when driving. All in all, yes we can make it more difficult to obtain a licence, but at the end of the day I just think most of these kids lack maturity and too big for their boots. They think they are invincible.

    Loui Posted on 02 February 2010 2:15pm
  • There is enough training and testing done, only you can't test attitude. It's all about their attitude to driving and understanding that it is dangerous and to drive accordingly, drive to the conditions. If you drive like a lunatic something bad will eventually happen. So more testing/training etc will not fix the problem, you need to get inside their heads and somehow make them understand the consequences of their actions.

    DD of Sydney Posted on 02 February 2010 2:10pm
  • I started teaching my daughter to drive when she was 14 - as a former rally-driver, I wanted to make sure she understood the basics of car-control long before she was ever allowed on a crowded public road. And when she was 17, I paid for lessons with a professional driving instructor - so that she could learn how to pass the test for her license. Which is all that driving lessons are for the majority of young drivers - they don't begin to touch on controlling a car in less than ideal situations - emergency braking or skid-control - and can't begin to compensate for bad attitudes to driving that are too often passed down from one generation to the next. There are no simple solutions - more comprehensive driver training that includes time on a skid-pan or a race-track under controlled conditions, to really learn about car-control would help. However there is no substitute for experience - learning to recognise and avoid dangerous situations - and a responsible attitude to driving - which cannot be taught, but can be learned.

    FRank Scherl of adelaide Posted on 02 February 2010 2:04pm
  • That young drivers are hopeless is just political spin. In 2009, SA out of 120 deaths, only 10 were "P" platers, of those, several were adults back on "P"s because of DUI offenses,but I guess "Young P Plate driver dies in horror smash" is far sensational than "Old fart loses control of vehicle & kills 6". I spent nearly 40 years in the motor trade, taking my life in my hands every time that I handed a test drive car over to some noddy to try it out. I am here to tell you that older drivers scared the sh#t out of me far more often than younger drivers ever did.

    Max Noir of Murray bridge SA Posted on 02 February 2010 1:58pm
  • Surely the one fact that everyone's overlooking is tostesterone-fuelled idiocy which some drivers may have in abundance when travelling by themselves, yet more so when in the company of others with a similar mindset or age group. Peer pressure causes many crashes by immature drivers who 'think they know it all.' With improvements in quality of car safety features, kids will push the vehicles to greater limits to 'find that pernicous edge of adhesion' and will go past it almost as if as a dare to themselves or others. Of course, road conditions and design must accept some of the blame, just as its often a conspiracy of 'collective events' which in daily circumstances prooves to be a lethal force. I think to glamourise car-racing needs to be 'looked-at' to see how it's psychological effects on the young and impressionable can be interpreted out on the streets - where much of the 'street-racing' is played-out. They race-on-the-streets thinking they know-it-all. That's a [sad] symptom of youth which everybody has to learn. Driver awareness is something which has to be learned and can't be bought from a shop like a lolly.

    Evan Williams of Sunshine Coast Hinterland [Qld] Posted on 02 February 2010 1:51pm
  • Absolutely young drivers lack skills,unfortunately, they have some much "experience" gained on a computer screen where they can drag,go into corners fast and try and come out fast, all with the "FEEL" of the car,and how the vehicle reacts to speed, roll, and sideways movement...when the get in the real thing and the pedal goes down, they have done this so many times on the screen.In real life "bullets are real" and so is the camber of the road, and so is the sudden impact against a tree! Raymond Sydney

    Raymond McKeown of Sydney Posted on 02 February 2010 1:47pm
  • WOW this is certainly an emotive topic with no single solution but requires a combination of actions to achieve an outcome. There is no doubt that more work needs to be done on the road network, make a mistake and you are probably going to hit something hard, europe has been implementing sign posts etc that deform on impact minimising the damage. the driver training system requires a complete review and should be weighted i.e. who cares if you can't reverse park, people don't get killed reverse parking a car. probationary drivers should be treated as exactly that and if they are caught breaking the law during the probationary period they should be made to start all over again, drivers that do do the right thing should be rewarded, instead of boasting about how many times you have been booked, we should be boasting about how few times we have been booked. the rewards should be enticing and appropriate. instead of a state by state approach to road safety it should be a national approach, with national road rules, driver training and licencing. there have been some good suggestions in this blog however all will be ignored and we will simply see an increase in speed cameras and fines.

    MattWallace Posted on 02 February 2010 1:46pm
  • It's not just young people who have no idea on vehicle control. It's the 99% of people who have never participated in an advanced driver or rider course. Teaching people 'control' and 'understanding' of vehicle dynamics does not make them more likely to take risks. That is a separate issue. Would you rather catch a plane with a pilot who has passed a written test or one that has actual practical experience and knows what to do in an emergency?

    Phil C of Newcastle Posted on 02 February 2010 1:42pm
  • How do you undo years of behaviourial training? The impatience, lack of manners, lack of common etiquette and courtesy are taught by parents, or they are not stamped out by the parents, over the last 17 years of the young driver's life. Driving tests only ensure that one has the basic skills and knowledge of rules for driving. Being willing to stick to the rules once you are out there is a completely different matter. Parents MUST NOT allow their kids to drive if they don't think the child has right temperament or discipline to drive safely. The only alternative would be having psychological tests as part of the driving test. People with type A personalities would be denied licences.

    Jeffrey Posted on 02 February 2010 1:33pm
  • I think a lot of people have missed the point. The problem is that young drivers don't get any training on how to handle a powerful vehicle in an emergency situation. Sometimes the vehicle safety features cause the vehicle to react in an unpredictable manner due to traction control and stability control. These thing are brilliant in most situations but if your vehicle becomes even slightly airbourne these systems can cause it to react unpredictably when contact with the road surface is re-established. Driver training with a focus on emergency situatiions is the answer. NOT REVUNUE RAISING. MAKING IT MORE EXPENSIVE TO GET A LICENSE AND THE TRAINING NEEDED WILL ONLY INCREASE THE NUMBER OF UNLICENCED AND UNTRAINED DRIVERS ON OUR ROADS. when I learnt to drive there were many dirt roads. This meant that I learnt to drive on unstable and unpredictable surfaces. This taught me how to handle a vehicle in these conditions. we used to take our cars onto mud flats and play to learn in relatively safe conditions.

    Shane of adelaide Posted on 02 February 2010 1:29pm
  • Young drivers are over confident and have the attitude that they are invincible. There are no laws in place which will prevent them thinking this way.I also agree with Reni, the young have no respect for anything or anyone.

    sonia morris of ormond Posted on 02 February 2010 1:23pm
  • I suppose the government should subsidise training. Those driver training courses are damn expensive, but kids should know how to control a car. Learning from your parents is great, but there's no way you can learn to control an out of control car, safely, on the real road. So once a driver loses the car, they've no idea what to do. But this isn't the core of the problem, it's that young drivers want to go fast and hoon around. If they didn't do that they wouldn't lose control in the first place. The p-plate power restrictions are a great idea by the way, and I've had many foreigners tell me the same thing.

    Scott of Victoria Posted on 02 February 2010 1:11pm
  • Skill, speed, alertness, experience, driving to conditions, quality of vehicle, attention to task, attitude and respect for these same things in other road users are the critical elements of driving safely. The age of the driver obviously affects many of these but perhaps its the attitude element that most profoundly affects the youthful drivers. Too fast, too arrogant, too impatient, and blithely unaware of the consequences of driving in a manner that might cause accidents including both the economic and human costs. My observations are that youthful drivers are more likely to speed, tailgate, brake heavily, drive vehicles with damaged indicators and brake lites, use mobile phones, have dangling things on rear view mirrors, have dirty windows, hang arms out windows, have music blaring, have aggressive sticker messages on vehicles and look at passengers while talking with them. Yes, there are good and bad drivers of all ages and there is a case for aged driver refresher courses and even medical fitness certificates for all drivers but young drivers could do with attitude training too.

    David Ireland of Hervey Bay Posted on 02 February 2010 1:05pm
  • As a Firefighter and Rescue Operator for 25 years I attended countless accidents and fatalities. Almost all of them involved young drivers and/or alcohol and funnily enough I never attended a serious incident involving the elderly. So IMHO this constant "picking-on" our Senior Citizens is unwarranted! At any time of day however you can see the youth of today with P-Plates driving 10-20 kph over the limit, while using their mobiles. No wonder they kill themselves!

    pada gotronmimsio of west pennant hills Posted on 02 February 2010 1:04pm
  • Advanced driver training is definately needed but when you see pictures like the yellow commodore in the lead story with alloys on the front & the old tyres on the original steel wheels on the back you can bet the driver has been or intends to do burn outs or wheelies so the police should have the power to impound the car, no exceptions.

    Shane Godfrey of Mildura Posted on 02 February 2010 1:03pm
  • I constantly witness young drivers (usually P platers) driving dangerously and at excessive speeds. My own children will not be driving on the roads until they have completed a Defensive Driving Course which will be my gift to them. Personally, I think that L and P platers should have speed restrictors fitted to their vehicles. It could save SO many lives.

    Catherine Forbes of Sunshine Coast Posted on 02 February 2010 12:55pm
  • Although I agree that young drivers are not adequately trained, especially in country and higher speed driving, that is not the only problem. Many others have also stated that it is a lack of respect. But aside from all that, many of these crashes are also contributed by the fact that young drivers have a car full of passengers, all of whom are urging the driver to take more dangerous risks. Alcohol also seems to contribute far too often. This problem needs to be tackled on several fronts; training, respect for other road users, restriction of passenger numbers, restrictions to the power of the vehicles they drive, and teaching young drivers to realise that they are not invincible. Show them more graphic footage of what emergency services have to deal with.

    Janice of Adelaide Posted on 02 February 2010 12:53pm
  • Don't blame the roads, trees and other objects for the crashes, blame the driver or drivers regardless whether they are young or older - drive to the conditions. Just like reading, writing and arithmetic are integral parts of a school curriculum so should all aspects of driving a vehicle as all four form part of a person's future community life. From year 8 (aged 14) a student should be studying things like road rules, vehicle maintenance, defensive driving, driving responsibilities etc and culminating in the issue of a certificate in year 12 as a compulsory prerequisite to the issue of a learner's permit and then licence. Specialists should be conducting the subjects. In this way the student gains the necessary skills, behavior and respect for others. They will also comes to understand that to drive is a privilege not a right. For current drivers, road safety authorities need to change direction. They should be talking of incremental improvements in driver skills and behavior. Start by providing clear messages eg, 'turn indicators is a courtesy tool, use it to tell others what you are going to do, not what you are doing or have already done. The media must get involved.

    Bill Coomans of Adelaide Posted on 02 February 2010 12:49pm
  • There should be a Limit on the learner Drivers vehicle Say 1.5 litre engine Or a speed limiter fitted to the vehicle , Also if the person no matter what their age is if they are exceeding speed limit, the vehicle is forfeit for 2 weeks for 1st offence, for 2nd impounded and crushed soon fix speedsters young and old

    lpnt65 of Pensthurst 3289 Posted on 02 February 2010 12:48pm
  • Yes of course blame it on the kids. You can't blame people for what they don't know: you don't know what you don't know! My Old Man was the RTA Road Safety Mgr for NSW's western region for many years; he argued, begged, pleaded to have a basic defensive driving course made a mandatory part of progressing from L's to P's in regional NSW. The RTA head office rejected it outright as it cost money. The course was not a 'learn to hoon' course, it consisted of a simple set of tests the kids did which showed them they couldn't brake, judge distance, or control their cars. Kids were given a witches hat, stood at a line and asked to put the witches hat where they thought they could pull up to from 60. All the kids overshot their witches hats. They were asked to perform driving tasks over wet. gravel, and dry surfaces, which they ALL FAILED. They were then taught how to defensive brake on those surfaces, to judge distance & speed, how to spot hazards and mentally + practically handle emergencies. The cost to the RTA was around $120 per driver. I did this course, it has saved me numerous times; although my Dad taught me how to drive from the age of 10. He did this because European r

    Shinsengumi Posted on 02 February 2010 12:38pm
  • What a load of garbage,allways exceses on excuses.Its not the test,or the roads,and its not how long you learn to drive or weather the test is harder.It not fair that our kids are made to suffer because of other idiots,here is your answer,the laws allow people to reoffend,drink drink drive.They get busted 3 and 4 times but reoffend and are back killing people again,change the laws to no tollerance and have warnings on bill boards and advertise it over tv radio internet,everywhere you can plaster it and change all laws to you loose your licence indefenetley for repeat offenders never to have it back.the laws are to soft 20 kms over the limit loss of your licence for 3 years,and 10,000 dollar fine and car inpounded ready to be crushed at the judges order.OR GET CAR BACK IN THREE YEARS WHEN YOU HAVE BE GIVEN YOUR LICENCE BACK,OR sell the car to pay the fine,over 40 kms loss of licence for 7 years,car crushed or sold at action to pay fines,if your a repeat offender,loss of licence indefernateley.In this time if you are caught driving a vehical you are jailed instantley for 3 years with paroll at least to serve 1 and half years in prison of the sentence anyone with out a licence jailed.

    andrew Posted on 02 February 2010 12:28pm
  • VicRoads must take some of this blame, there policy on power to rate vehicles is rediculous, how are you meant to know what cars you car not meant to drive. Why are P-plated drivers not restricted to vehicles that are easier to control? Why cant we restrict to 4 cylinder non turbo? its easy to understand, its worked with motor cycles for years. It will promote better for the enviroment, it will take far longer for acceleration of a vehicle, the sound of a 4 cylinder screaming at 110km/h is enough to make you take your foot off the accelrator, easier to park the list does go on!!

    Jazz15 of Melbourne Posted on 02 February 2010 12:24pm
  • The process that new drivers are required to go through does not reflect in any way, what happens in reality once they are licensed, apart from puttering around town. There is no requirement to drive at night, in rain, on gravel roads, in fog or snow, in different cars, nor is there any restriction on the amount of time that they can drive without having a break. The whole system needs a thorough overhall and once licensed, there should be a restricted and graded progression related to various driving conditions and experience. Failure to do this will result in too many more deaths and injured people. Also, road courtesy is very rarely exhibited any more, either by young drivers or by older drivers, who should be the ones setting the example.

    Ross Cairns of Wangaratta Posted on 02 February 2010 12:17pm
  • IT Has very little to do with the training as stated by others, it is the attitude of the person. While this can have to do with age it isn't always the case. How many times do we see on the news about a repeat drunk driver killing or injuring others. They have been driving for years. I feel the penalties for drunk driving and speeding need to be increased not the training for new drivers. Its the re offenders we need to get off the road. Don't make it an age issue. it isn't age it is attitude. Idiots will be idiots no matter how old they are. so just get them off the road at an early age and keep them OFF is the answer in my opinion.

    kim of perth Posted on 02 February 2010 12:14pm
  • I think most drivers could do with a refresher course at defined -say every 5 year - intervals. Tailgating, speeding, failing to indicate (particulary coming off oundabouts and changing lanes), cutting people off, or entering traffic in unsafe gaps etc arent exclusively apparant in the young. These all cause accidents. Sometimes I question whether drivers older than 25 are aware of how poor their own driving choices can be.. And for the record I am a mature aged driver myself in case anyone questions bias around my opinion...

    JM of Blue Mountains Posted on 02 February 2010 12:14pm
  • Like going to school, we all go and we are all experts on education similarly, We are all car drivers and ergo, all experts on driving....it's obvious that if u give everybody a car licence then there will be excellent, good, fair ,bad and terrible drivers..there is no filtering....plus,what is not in place is a post licence appraisal or a periodic appraisal of drivers...those that fail pay for extra training and rego and licence renewal...further the Vic roads practice of sending rego labels in the mail that can be stuck on without payment is ludicrous....Better roads, safer cars, but same old licence testing...beggars belief...young drivers are not as much to blame as us oldies who do not insist on a better system... Pierre

    redlaser of Melbourne Posted on 02 February 2010 12:12pm
  • It is not the skills ,the vehicle or time behind the wheel that causes accidents ,it is the attitude,responsiblity that is the major cause. This is not gained by physical skills it has to be taught prior to getting into a vehicle .It is part of your social responibility .

    DDMlittlec Posted on 02 February 2010 12:11pm
  • I was speaking with a young driver recently and they told me that they we're taught how to pass the test not necessarily how to drive effectively. I feel there needs to be a re-vamp of the Instructors. How can an instructor teach someone just to pass, and not to develop the basic skills to drive well and continually assess road conditions. I feel sorry for the these people as if they're not taught otherwise how would they know. If the parents let them drive this way while they generate enough hours, then the bad habits are learn't early. They have no hope. Maybe it's all too complex and difficult, so people try to find short cuts. Maybe parents should be assessed to see if they have the relevant skills to guide their children effectively.

    Simon Ashton of Sydney Posted on 02 February 2010 12:09pm
  • After recently completing a Murcotts Driving course with my 'P plate' son, we both agree these courses should be compulsory before (or at least within the first year after) getting your license. Government assistance may help here too, maybe in the form of subsidised costs or a reduced registration cost? More insurance companies should support this too & not just their own courses. Speed & hoon behaviour are good points to focus on as they contribute to the road trauma (& are easy to Police) but what about some more focus from the government & media on other causes. More focus on how to be a safer driver. Things like quickly looking left & right before proceeding when the traffic lights go green, Safe traveling distances between cars, good seating positions, etc. We can do a lot more in relation to general public awareness of good driving skills & awareness to the dangers of distraction which causes a lot of accidents. These are the skills that can be obtained by the driver training courses, but why not Government media advertising as well. The best training will not stop an idiot behind the wheel, but it may help the many other drivers who want to & try to be safe drivers.

    G.Dodds of Country Victoria, Australia. Posted on 02 February 2010 12:09pm
  • Practical Driver Training is what is needed, Theory should start in the senior years at school and then before a licence is obtained a learner should have to do a day's driver training at a driver training school similar to Norwell on the Gold Coast with a Mechanical Turntable & Skid Pan to let them experience an out of control motor vehicle and how to react and learn correction techniques. This should be compulsory before receiving a licence and be made compulsory for all current drivers to be trained. The cost would be minimal compared to the money being spent on emergency services cleaning up at these accident scenes and also show that politicians care enough to provide such education for future and current road users.

    Meg Lucas of Taree Posted on 02 February 2010 12:02pm
  • How about adding to the speeding Fines for teenagers who get caught, a paid by them driving skills course, I did one at Sandown and learnt things new even after having my license for 25 years ..

    A.Lane of Yarraville Posted on 02 February 2010 12:02pm
  • Dave of Freo has it right. Driver training needs to be "advanced driver training", alerting all new drivers to the hidden dangers in driving. Pysch testing may also be of benefit to try and weed out the regular risk-takers, and the plain irresponsible. The greatest single cause of death amongst young drivers, is the lack of awareness of what happens at speed. That slight curve that is easy at 60-70 kmh, becomes a VERY sharp curve, at 110-120 kmh. If they are made aware of what happens at high speed - how things happen so much faster, and how you have to sharpen up your reflexes for high speed - it goes a long way towards giving them the skills they need. Driving on gravel requires a whole lot different set of skills as compared to a sealed road. Too many kids are taught by parents and siblings, and pick up bad habits that the other family members have developed. Until the Govt gets serious about making a driving licence, a priviledge to be earned - and one that is graduated, to match skills to maturity, and the power of the car owned - then the road toll will never change.

    Ron N of Perth, W.A. Posted on 02 February 2010 11:59am
  • Its their attitude on the road and the available power from modern cars. A lethal mix.

    Coaj Mohomad Posted on 02 February 2010 11:59am
  • Testing standard needs to include not only driving skills but driver responsibilities - such as vehicle maintenance & repairs. We have mechanical business see alot of un roadworthy vehicles - not only young people. We take safety seriously. Young drivers need restrictions on the vehicle power in which they can drive (like they have on bikes). They need to understand they are driving a lethal weapon and they need to be in control 100% of the time. Keep music down, keep of mobile phone's,keep eyes on the road and plan a head, keep to the speed limits and know the road rules. its not a right to have a licence its a priviage. My kids understand that car maintenance is their responsibility and in their control if you can't afford to repair it or service it you can't afford to drive - take a bus. Lives are at risk. Parents need to educate their kids by educating and setting an example themselves. I for one don't want my kids lives at risks because people don't take responsiblity for their actions or vehicles. Govt needs to take their duty of care more serious by looking at our roads not all accidents are drivers or vehicle faults - road conditions are to blame at times

    Terry at Ross of Gold Coast Posted on 02 February 2010 11:52am
  • Here is a very basic example. This morning 02.02.10: On my way to visit a client, a young lady was driving at 80km/h on the right hand side of the road (on a QLD freeway), with speakers in her ears and gesticuling....assuming to the music beat (green P Plate) Her interior rear vision mirror was pointing to the left. Her sun visor was down (probably for make up). I sat at back of her as I did not want to overtake on left (illegal). After a couple of minutes and with irate followers, I flashed my lights to warn her that I was behind her. Suddenly, she braked in panic...then accelerated. She then re-adjusted her mirror and stuck her fingers to me and very obviously swore... And stayed on the same side of the road. The traffic behind me got sick of it and 4 cars passed me on the left.... We then arrived to a round-about and to my dismay, cut across the wrong lane. Luckily noboby was on the left... soooo, who's fault is that? Not the silly girl, because she most probably did not know better. The fault relies squarely on her tutors be the parents or the driving school AND the idiotic public servants whom set up the driving tests and respective laws.

    Jean-Yves of Eumindi - QLD Posted on 02 February 2010 11:51am
  • Here is a very basic example. This morning 02.02.10: On my way to visit a client, a young lady was driving at 80km/h on the right hand side of the road (on a QLD freeway), with speakers in her ears and gesticulating....assuming to the music beat (green P Plate) Her interior rear vision mirror was pointing to the left. Her sun visor was down (probably for make up). I sat at back of her as I did not want to overtake on left (illegal). After a couple of minutes and with irate followers, I flashed my lights to warn her that I was behind her. Suddenly, she braked in panic...then accelerated. She then re-adjusted her mirror and stuck her fingers to me and very obviously swore... And stayed on the same side of the road. The traffic behind me got sick of it and 4 cars passed me on the left.... We then arrived to a round-about and to my dismay, cut across the wrong lane. Luckily nobody was on the left... soooo, who's fault is that? Not the silly girl, because she most probably did not know better. The fault relies squarely on her tutors be the parents or the driving school AND the idiotic public servants whom set up the driving tests and respective laws.

    Jean-Yves of Eumindi - QLD Posted on 02 February 2010 11:50am
  • The recent Melbourne crash killing five and injuring a sixth seems to give creadance that 19 year old should not be driving with extra passengers nor out at 2am. Our legislature gives too many rights and not enough responsibilties. Curfew times for P platers. no more that one passenger in p plate driven cars and either extended provisional periods until 21 or pass a defensive advanced driver course. Fitted speed limiters there are numerous devices and limitations that we can place on the young but stillthere will be idiots. Driver ed should be taught in school with continual follow up until the driver proves to be able to handle the car! As a parent I have taught two daughters to drive one should never drive the other is a very confident advanced driver with the same parental feelings I often wondered how it would feel to bury a child?

    Chris Drysdale of Brisbane Posted on 02 February 2010 11:36am
  • What a stupid question, of course young drivers don't have good (driving) skills. What do we expect when the driving test is trivial (or non existent if you already have an EU license) and there's nowhere to go for further training or experience.

    David Banes of Sydney Posted on 02 February 2010 11:30am
  • Young people have good reflexes but lack the perception of the consequences of hitting an object at 20, 40, then 60 KPH let alone at speeds above that. They appear to have no perception of braking distances in different conditions and speeds. A shock & graphic course of the consequences of not adhereing to sensible driving techniques I believe should be part of obtaining a license Consideration should also be given to limiting the power of vehicles they can drive for the first 3 years Again most have no perception of what a big V8 is capable of and how to tame it. Dont give them the opportunity restict P platers to 4 cyl/2 litres for 3 years and if they offend give them a compulsory tour thru the casualty department and morgue

    Brian of Bunbury Wa Posted on 02 February 2010 11:24am
  • I spend a great deal of my driving time on the F3 between Sydney & Newcastle , the speed limit is 110 kph yet you can bet nearly every car that passes me is a P plater. There is almost never any Police on the F3.

    Greg E. of Newcastle Posted on 02 February 2010 11:24am
  • It's the problem of the loose nut behind the steering wheel! There should be some sort of test applied to determine whether people have the right psychological makeup to be allowed the right to drive. Victoria Police recently said that research shows that there is a direct correlation between bad anti-social/behaviour patterns from early childhood and proceeding through school and serious accident/fatality rates. So, screen them out! Don't let them get a licence. If they are caught without one - as many will be - lock them up!

    Mustapha P of Mornington Peninsula Posted on 02 February 2010 11:23am
  • you are asking for the wrong answer, my opinion is they are being trained enough to drive a normal car, they are not trained nor have the experience to race in the streets with cars designed for high proformance. That is not the reason for driving on the streets. When will somebody finally restrict the horse power of cars for under 25's - it just sounds too easy dosnt it....

    Darryll Heedes of Fremantle Western Australia Posted on 02 February 2010 11:18am
  • ...sure, the licence test system is getting better (in my day I simply rocked up to the local Police station & went for drive with the local Sargeant, who gave me my licence..) What they then need to be taught is how to DRIVE , having only just learnt to steer. I put both my daughters (now late 20's) thru an advanced driving course at age 18 so they knew what was going to happen when the car lost traction for whatever reason. Suffice to say that neither has had an accident...The current sytem is OK for starters..we now need to extend it. And as for the ridiculous system of exclusions, it needs to be overhauled immediately. Sure, exclude under 30's from driving supercharged, turbo charged V8 PETROL vehicles, but they shouldn't be able to drive V10's or V12's either (current loophole! - I see a red P plater everyday driving a black AMG E63 Mercedes which must produce around 500HP!! Also blanket restriction on turbo vehicles is not right. There are a whole raft of turbo diesels now that are most suitable that do not produce massive power & are taht way for economy. The sytem needs to be rethought & quickly.

    Greg Neilson of Oatlands NSW Posted on 02 February 2010 11:17am
  • It's absolutely about education, and having the proper penalties in place for poor driver behaviour. Speed cameras don't arrest any problem. Having a fiscal penalty, post fact, is ludicris and only serves to boost coffers, while giving Governments a platform to sprout their efforts in road management. What rubbish we're forced upon us. The evidence of their redundacy is an ever-increasing toll. On road presence by police and proper maintenance and progress of our road systems will improve things, but education and proper penalties are the key.

    Rick Who Is Fed Up of Brisbane Posted on 02 February 2010 11:11am
  • I agree with all the comments,but I think all P plate driver should not have any passngers that have not held a drivers licence for less than ten years.

    hutch hutchinson of Adelaide South Australia Posted on 02 February 2010 11:09am
  • Do young drivers lack skills? That's a "given". It's an experience factor. Also, the combination of testosterone and no brains is a lethal mix. There should also be harsher laws regarding multi-tasking while driving. Stopped at traffic lights, I took a glance at the car next to me and was surprised to see the driver with a cup of coffee, a cigarette, chatting with the baby in the back, AND doing something on her mobile phone. I was waiting for the make-up to come out.

    The Samurai Posted on 02 February 2010 11:06am
  • Unfortunately, most young drivers are taught how to pass a test, not how to drive. Every young driver that I have taught has passed the test first time because I taught them how to drive. I gave them experiece in difficult conditions and on unsealed roads. Not one of them has had a serious accident.

    Richard of WA Posted on 02 February 2010 11:02am
  • I agree with a lot of the above but to add to all this are the computer / video games available to growing teenagers which are predominately racing games. Many of these games make the person invincible on the road (in the game) and I do think this is taken onto our roads when they are old enough to drive. Many people complain about P platers but also don't forget there are 3 times as many on our roads since it went from 1 year to 3 years to hold a provisional license.

    Glenn of Sydney Posted on 02 February 2010 10:59am
  • Yes better education will reduce the road toll. But do you really think that the yoing bloke that likes to drive fast is suddenly going to slow down with extra education? A century ago when a young bloke got his first horse - he rode it fast. Back then I'm sure plenty of young people died for exactly the same reasons as today. All we can do is provide the best training possible, put people into the safest cars possible and build our road system with safety in mind. And get as many police out there to catch the buggers before they kill themselves.

    AGOR of Canberra Posted on 02 February 2010 10:55am
  • What is wrong with people taking responsibility for their own actions. If parents did what they are meant to and educate their own children rather than leave it up to the system we would all be better off.

    lets blame someone else of Brisbane Posted on 02 February 2010 10:53am
  • Talk about stating the bleeding obvious. Of course young drivers lack any skill on the roads. However, we must really include all drivers in this category. I'm a professional driver & it never ceases to amaze me the risk & outright stupid & inconsiderate behaviour of motorists on our roads. I believe there are 3 reasons why this is so. Firstly, people are taught how to pass a driving test, NOT how to learn how to drive in all conditions (as they do in most European countries). Everyone should be forced to attend defensive driving courses (with refreshers every 7 years). Secondly, we need far more Police on the roads creating a deterent to bad driving & to issue more fines for infringements. If someone doesn't pay their fines, then confiscate their cars (as they do with car hoon laws). And thirdly, it would be nice if all levels of govt got off their collective backsides & actually built better & safer roads. Instead of the police & the govt. treating us like mushrooms & telling us all to slow down or else; they should actually do something productive & of value to the community.

    Peter B of Sydney Posted on 02 February 2010 10:49am
  • Its not about the hours to drive and those stupid written tests. You could know all there is about driving but it doesnt make you a good driver, its about confidence and co-odination. Yes the young drivers drive to fast and yes they dont have the skill, but some people get them into situations where doesnt matter how much skill you have you in a situation where you have gone to fast and there is nothing anyone can do. They should make the test a lot harder and make it so you have to have a number of hours with an instructor. I have done the test 5 years ago and it was a walk in the park you can pass it after driving for a week. Look at countries like Finland and Germany it cost around 6,000 Euros to get your license and you have to do use an instructor. And in Finland you have to go to a special track to learn what to do when the car loses traction. These countries have a much better record than us. Also the roads are f____ing terrible. If we had good roads we wouldnt have so many accidents. Germany has prooved the fact that speed isnt a factor when you have good roads. If your parents are bad drivers what hope does the child have, if thats who is teaching. We need harder tests.

    David Tate of Finland Posted on 02 February 2010 1:42am
  • The ability of the new drivers to know their limits and to make decisions should be questioned. As this would be the sole contributor to the crashes, you could train the new drivers as much as you want. But this would be a complete waste unless the Drivers in question knew when to slow down. If New drivers knew this, they would probably also be mature enough not to drink drive, speed, SMS whilst driving or overload their cars. The problem does not lie with the system, but with the driver who thinks they are above the law and perfect in every way.

    Louis J. Posted on 01 February 2010 10:49pm
  • I have an acquaintance that lost his licence due to speeding, was sent to jail for getting caught speeding whilst suspended. He is now out of jail and contining to drive (and drive dangerously) whilest suspended, but with a newborn in the car now (and he is 27 years old!. He does not come from a good family and was never taught respect or responsibility so he has no respect on the road either. This is the same problem most new young drivers have. They are not taught respect in any facet of life, so why should it be any different on the roads. The government can do whatever they want... until these kids learn respect they will continue to die on the roads.

    Reni of Melbourne Posted on 01 February 2010 10:05pm
  • these young drivers take to many risks and thay drive cars to powerfull for them thay cant handle them and thay crash and die or kill innocent people and thay dont use there blinkers p platers have no idea.

    mr big Posted on 01 February 2010 7:27pm
  • It's the culture of the me, me, me generation which I believe leads to many of these tragic accidents. The utter selfishness demonstrated by so many drivers on the road today, particularly the young, beggars belief. I feel that the 100-plus hours experience required to obtain a driving license is about right, but 150 hours of community involvement should also be mandatory, ie working with the aged, the very young, the scouts, guides etc., involvement in sports clubs, CFA, SES - anything that gets young people involved in the community in which they live in and away from computer games and the extension of these, their cars. Perhaps we would then see more enlightened and responsible behaviour on our roads.

    Allen Wright of Tullamarine Posted on 01 February 2010 4:14pm
  • I believe that driver training should encompass both the standard training as well as defensive and advanced driver training. I thought, as a P Plater, I knew how to drive properly, evade trouble and stop effectively UNTIL I did an advanced driver training course. Basic evasion skills, how to brake, anticipation are not taught enough. Log books are a joke, most learners bodgy them up. Nothing beats experience, but advanced training should be mandatory within the first 12 months of holding a licence, before progressing to second Ps.

    John Posted on 01 February 2010 10:37am
  • Learning how to drive should be part of your high school education or taught at TAFE. A few hundred hours are spent using a similar method in Finland - where the roads are BETTER than here... We need to get serious - drivers should be taught about car control and ATTITUDE. Maybe then we can reduce deaths on the road.

    Chris Ford of adelaide Posted on 31 January 2010 11:50pm
  • Common sense goes a long way on the road. When travelling from A to B it's like the share market - don't go for the quick returns by constantly swapping lanes, hard acceleration, hard braking, etc but make strategic decisions, calculated moves, etc. The inability of the average QLD motorist to merge astonishes me even in stop start traffic at 20km/h. Leave a gap for the merging vehicle so we can all get home a bit quicker. I learnt to drive in NZ in the early 80's and I got most of my practice on the open road towing caravans and trailers starting at 14 y.o. There was no graduated system with P plates, etc and not even any requirement to demonstrate competence on a motorway. If you could do a hill start, a parallel park and a 3 point turn that was the limit of the practical. Motorsport experience has helped me greatly with car control as well as just driving and exploring the limits in a controlled environment. Older vehicles without nanny electronics are far better for this.

    Bonester of Brisbane Posted on 31 January 2010 8:53pm
  • I don't believe politicians are really taking the road toll seriously. I recently wrote paper letters to all Victorian opposition MP's,that's about 20 letters, with a one page outline of a strategy to reduce our road toll, and only four could be bothered to reply, and they get a huge postage allowance. I doubt most even read what I had to say.

    Peter Collins of Boronia, Vic Posted on 31 January 2010 7:12pm
  • My son recently passed the WA driving test 1st time, didn't have to do a 3 point turn, didn't have to parallel park, didn't have to hill start, didn't have to reverse around a corner. The government should be embarrassed at what it considered adequate testing and training. What about teaching accident avoidance techniques; threshold breaking, driving on a skid pan, driving on gravel, techniques for driving in different conditions, what to do in an accident and perhaps even basic first aid.

    Dave of Freo Posted on 31 January 2010 6:36pm
  • I have my L's Have around 10 hours on them. To be honest, I think it comes back to the way they were taught to drive. And to be honest I don't think this is a problem that will be fixed. They get behind that wheel and have so much power below their feet. One wrong move is usually all it takes. You can move the ages up, move the hours up. But the kids who want to drive stupid still will. Unfortunate

    callum garvey of nsw Posted on 31 January 2010 6:10pm
  • @DM - just relating what I saw the other day. Parents teaching their kid how to drive on the weekend. Flew past me in a luxury SUV well beyond the speed limit. Also on freeways, which L platers cannot use.

    Amup Posted on 31 January 2010 2:55pm
  • An education of attitude as well as driving skill should be implemented. For instance, tell young people that they are driving a 'lethal weapon' whenever they are 'behind the wheel'. Diary entries chould be introduced to young drivers to give reports of self learning and self analysis, giving a reflection on themselves and giving critical evaluations upon others. I also think introducing a 'pysch-test', medical evaluations and questionaires about lifestyle habits eg.drinking, drugs, sleep patterns ,etc could be introduced before a driving test. Also defensive driving should be mandatory and, like motorcyles learners, should have a limit to the power behind the car. No petrol heads for young people. Furthermore, I think it would be a wise choice to let them visit hospital victims or, at least, show videos on the damages reckless driving or careless driving results in. Give them true to life stories of the victims and families who are traumatised by bad experiences. Schools, if not already, could be giving introducting to theory of safety and have guess speakers and police to speak with students. These points may not solve the problem but may reduce negative mentalities.

    Derek Kessler of Brisbane Posted on 31 January 2010 9:00am
  • The HOON laws aren't working - not even close. The "impound the car" logic is now seen as a badge of honour - and does NOTHING. People forget that "P-plate" means probationary. If some one is on probation from prison, and breaks the rules, they're back in the slammer. It should be that "HOONS" lose their right to P-plates - and go back to L-plates for 1 year - and re-take the test. AND - must be with a licensed driver of at least 10 years (not a brother or mate - but a PARENT). That might deter people from hooning - ie. punish the PERSON, not the CAR. Part of the problem is the CARS themselves also - standard model Commodore & Falcon's have 180-200 kw - when a young driver should be limited to around 100kw. Maybe P-platers should be restricted to 4 cylinder cars only. Even so, you will never stop the idiots like the guy in Mill Park - over the limit, 6 people in car, speeding - an accident waiting to happen. Tragic. Perhaps if ONE of the passengars said "slow down" - or "stop" - it might never have happened. Maybe education should be drivers AND passengers - otherwise they will die together - and no-one wants that.

    A change is needed of Melbourne Posted on 31 January 2010 8:53am
  • I think its attitude not skill. A lot of young driver seem to drive as a secondary task. They always seem to have something else more interesting going on in the car. SMS, Phone, iPod, Duff Duff, GPS, Food, Makeup even books. I see cops drive right by. Must be a boring infringement to issue.

    Alan Watson of Sydeny Posted on 30 January 2010 11:03pm
  • Paul Watson expertly summed up the appalling methods this country adopts in educating new drivers. You only have to spend a short amount of time on Melbourne roads to understand an alarmingly high percentage of drivers lack basic road craft skills. I believe advanced driver training skills should be taught and tested as part of the process towards earning a full licence. Adding what would amount to be approximately $300 of cost should be considered an investment in the future of all road users. What price do we place on a life. Also, what logic is there in mandating a requirement for 120 hours of tuition, when the ?instructor? may be a parent who hasn?t a clue of the skills and attitude is takes to be a decent driver? Not only have I self funded my participation in numerous defensive driver courses over the years. I also take my road car out on amateur club race events. These not only provide a safe environment for my speed fix. They also serve as a reminder of the braking and handling limitations of my car (and my own skills). We test cars for their roadworthiness. Why don?t we test the most important component in a car? The nut behind the wheel.

    Marco Leoncelli of Melbourne Posted on 30 January 2010 8:59pm
  • Why do young drivers cop a lot of flack? I see more drivers who have been on the road 20 years or more doing stupid things. No wonder they are picking up on the bad behaviours from their parents etc. When you pass your full licence test, you don't get tested again until you are 65? If you ask most drivers to sit their knowledge/driving test again, many of them would not pass it. But this should be introduced into schools as a compulsory subject and the government should subsidise every new driver with one lesson with a defensive driving course. That will never happen though........

    Sarah Posted on 30 January 2010 8:00pm
  • I feel incensed that the authorities, journalists and the general public are blaming driving training and or the Government for the carnage on the roads. The blame lies squarely in two areas, on one the young drivers and two the parents. The young drivers consider that they are invincible and it won't happen to me, also the me society syndrome; being that they only consider themselves and not how their actions may affect someone else. Young drivers speed because they want to and no one should try and stop them, they consider that it is almost their god given right to speed. Both young learner drivers and their parents are not prepared to spend enough money to ensure that they become safe drivers on the road; yet any amount of money will be spent on music lessons, sports training etc. Having been a driving instructor for more than 30 years, I have heard all the excuses for having as few driving lessons as possible, but the best of all was a father who said to me get his son his licence and he can learn to drive afterwards. To analyse it all down the simplest term, it is the attitude of these young people and their respective parents that is the overall cause of the carnage.

    Peter Bellmont of Watsonia North Posted on 30 January 2010 5:52pm
  • Bob Watson is right. Training is a great idea, but they (most) will still end up in high performance cars and training doesn't cater for that. In my opinion its all about horse power and the type of vehicles these kids are driving. I reckon keep the horse power at a minimum, maybe speed or rev limiters for hi po cars, and then raise the age to 18 for L's, and 21 for P's with extensive training in all types of conditions in all types of vehicles in between the 18/21. Then maybe we may see the road toll decline just slightly. No matter what accidents are still going to happen.

    Wazza of South Aust Posted on 30 January 2010 4:20pm
  • we shouldn't discriminate against young drivers they have all worked harder and done more to prove they deserve a licence than older drivers if stricter rules are going to be applied they should be across the board with all drivers being retested every 5 years and having to pass a theory computer test in the next 6 months. seniors should be retested yearly as they are generally very dangerous drivers on the road but usually only drive a couple of times a week which distorts the statistics that the tv and media are usually talking about

    Peter Barton of Sutherland Posted on 30 January 2010 2:42pm
  • Amup of Perth: It's a sign of a good driver to want to know the differences between FWD and RWD for those emergency situations that such knowledge would prove to be critically beneficial. Or even to adjust one's driving style for safety's sake. However, the situation is very different when the same driver drives in such a way as to deliberately exploit that knowledge for their own gratification. Exploiting that kind of knowledge for the purpose of showing off their driving prowess, to gain some sort of competitive advantage over other drivers or to bully other road users are signs of the wrong kinds of attitudes on our roads today. Driving can and should be enjoyable but not at the expense of the enjoyment by other road users, and especially not at the expense of safety.

    Peter of Brisbane Posted on 30 January 2010 11:41am
  • New drivers should not be allowed to drive high powered cars.I did a Advanced Driving Course with Jim and Jane Murcott,and found that I was not a great driver,even though i had driven for more than 25years.There are only 4 palms of rubber that hold a car to the road.In Europe on the Autobahns,there is no speed limit,but accidents are very rare.Roads are built like race tracks.I saw a board that showed ( 135kms)when I asked the Coach driver,I was told that's the Government Recommended Speed limit.Coaches,speedlimited vehicles use 1 lane then lanes for other vehicles clearly marked overhead.If you have a Ferrari you can do 300+kms.If however you do have an accident,which is rare mainly side swipes.Police come and from skid marks and point of impact determine who was at fault.If he/she was travelling more than 135kms.Insurance will not cover both His/Her or the other car. Licence is lost forever.So Drivers tend to stay below 135 kms.They know and respect the consequences. Here we do not reward good driving and Governments have found a revenue source from fines, even though most are illegally obtained,because all Cameras in use are flawed, Rex Manuel of Greenvale 3059 January 30 12:22

    REX MANUEL of GREENVALE .VICTORIA 3059 Posted on 30 January 2010 12:26am
  • LAST BIT - and would react automatically. I would have loved the opportunity to spread this message further than I was able to. React automatically. Isn't that a key point of defensive driving - NOT timid driving. Practice situations so that they become automatic in life and death real emergency situations. Drive the paddock bomb on the block of land, do a really useful defensive driving course, join a car club and have a run in some motorkhanas - learn, practice, ingrain as automatic Remember because it has been impressed at a young age, before license age, appropriate reactions might just become automatic. FOOD FOR THOUGHT [note to ed - the full story was forwarded to our eGroup in response to the CarsGuide article in today's Melbourne Herald-Sun]

    Big George of Victoria Posted on 29 January 2010 11:29pm
  • as a student myself, in about 1966 or 1967 that was filmed at Warwick Farm when it was still a car racing track. It was about the effects, by display, on the driving ability of skilled racing drivers in new HR Holden sedans, based on their alcohol affectedness. * Take 6 racing/rally drivers and time their laps around Warwick Farm * Feed them orange juice drinks that may or may not have been spiked with levels of pure alcohol * do some laps, have another drink By the end of the session, all drivers were "molly the monk", and were taking ridiculously stupid lines through corners, complete with over-correction, etc. How did their lap times go? Slower and slower as they became more under the influence. * Except for rally drivers Colin Bond and Doug Chivas. They were the only rally drivers in the group, and had vast experience with the tail hanging out, etc. This is not to condone that rally drivers should drink and drive; but strikingly showed that the best race drivers in the country could not drive well when drunk. Rally drivers hanging the tail out - I used that as an excuse to exclude them from the demonstrations as they were practised at the gentle art of sliding the tail, MORE

    Big George of Rallying in Victoria Posted on 29 January 2010 11:19pm
  • PART 2 - Playing with Air Tracks, and later Air (platform) Tables when schools started receiving them under Commonwealth Science Grants. The concept of friction was then used to compare static, sliding and fluid friction - WITH STARTLINGLY VIVID results. Kids on their treadlies. Dry concrete path stopping distance under all three scenarios - dry surface (hard braking without locking up), dry surface with brakes locked, and finally wet surface locking up the brakes. Very simple tests - brilliantly demonstrative outcomes - the old wet surface breaking was 3 or 4 or more times longer than the dry surface locking, which was longer than the stop without locking situation. The message got through. Then I would conduct reaction times with and without distractions. It nearly broke the class up with the ways in which the kids would attempt to distract each other, and again, ABSOLUTE LESSONS learnt. Depending on when it was apprporiate, I would bring motor sport competitions into the situations to illustrate points. What to do if? And we raised lots of scenarios and made the kids think about them. I could never get hold of it; but I would refer to a back and white 16mm film I was shown, MORE

    Big George of Former rally Organiser Posted on 29 January 2010 11:07pm
  • Here here Watto Many years ago (20 ?) I used to teach a unit to a number of year 10 students (not the whole of year 10, unfortunately perhaps). It was called "Science and the Road" and I based it on the VicRoads/RTA/CRB publication of the same name. I taught it as an introduction to real Physics, and as a carrot for Year 11/12 Physics. I also developed it because of my involvement in motor sport (rallying, motorkhanas, autocross (poorly), etc). The kids knew I had a rally car. I drove it to school every day. That was both a lure and street cred. It made what I said real..... I did not teach students to drive. I worked on attitude, and experience through various types of scientific experiments. What I covered and the way I did it was unique in that school (and maybe overall, as it was my picking and choosing from the publication. We had fun crashing physics carts into each other, observing the effects on the little plasticine humans they built was enlightening. We would extend that to how seat belts WORK ONCE only, and then have to be thrown away, and looked at and discounted all those scenarios that people came up with for not wearing seatbelts (e.g. drowning...) - more to come -

    Big George of Rally Organiser of Victoria Posted on 29 January 2010 11:01pm
  • I think the new system is adequate enough for younger drivers. Naturally being a young driver myself I think 100 hours, in QLD anyway, is enough. Remembering here that the 100 hours must be completed before the driver can attempt a driving test to receive the provisional license. These days with the new system younger drivers are forced to learn properly. When they finally get there license it isn't bad driving skills that causes these incidents it's simple stupidity. Don't blame the system blame the driver.

    BC. of Brisbane Posted on 29 January 2010 10:15pm
  • Actually I think the standard of driving for a lot of drivers whether it be young, middle aged, or old is terrible these days. Because you see plenty of people taking illegal "right turns" instead of taking a permitted right turn at the next street, and taking illegal "U turns" on main roads because they don't have any patience go into a quiet side street to make the manouvre. And the icing on the cake is crossing three lanes of a freeway at once because they would have missed their exit instead of acknowledging their mistake and calmly taking the next exit. These bad habits are getting worse, maybe every person that holds a license should have to resit a driving test every 2 years (including myself). As for young drivers maybe there should be studies into young drivers of 40-50years ago because I'm sure there were plenty of fatalities involving young drivers back then and not just now, not to mention drivers would have gotten away with a lot more back then.

    Jonno of Brisbane Posted on 29 January 2010 10:02pm
  • You cannot learn skills over night, only time give you this. Drivers of all ages need to learn to driver within their limits.

    David of Buderim Posted on 29 January 2010 8:36pm
  • I got my license at 15, it allowed me to drive within 25 miles of a country town between 6am and PM. A group of us would go out to the farms and drive old bombs around the paddock. Our parents had one rule, in the paddock only 1 person in the car. Since then I have been active in motor sport, circuit races, rallies and hillclimbs and 50 years later still compete. It is these venues that taught me car control. Over the years I have completed many different advanced driving courses and at one stage tried to implement those training programs for staff. Unfortunately there is a belief in most Department of Transports in Australia that see these programs increasing the likelihood of having a motor vehicle accident. So advanced driver training is not going to happen while this belief holds at all DOTs in Oz. getting youth involved doesn't work as at the hillclimb we see new young drivers that arrive,scare themselves trying to get times older drivers achieve. We never see them back again.

    Peter or Brisbane of Australia Posted on 29 January 2010 7:45pm
  • I agree that there should be more driver training. i for one haven't had any. im on my p's but i learnt how to control the car on the track through motor sport and go-karts. take learners and p platers out onto the track in controlled areas and show them how to control the car efficiently, effectively and safely

    Alex Bird of Hobart Posted on 29 January 2010 5:36pm
  • If young people lack skills on the road, the problem is with their attitude or what they have been taught. I feel the infrastructure and system for learners in queensland is inadequate and backwards. A logbook? seriously? Bashing the youth, when the government isn't even doing anything about it. Its old drivers that lack 'skills' and perhaps driver assessments should be introduced.

    Harold W. of Brisbane Posted on 29 January 2010 5:10pm
  • At last someone who understands the problem, Mr Watson please stand for election.The driving test is pathetic,we do not allow inexperienced people to operate heavy machinery without thorough training.They are not allowed to fly aircraft until proven totally competent.Why then do we turn them loose in a car by answering a few questions and once round the block?Until the politics, the media and the police understand, the carnage will continue unabated.

    Terry Clements of Adelaide Posted on 29 January 2010 4:59pm
  • Experts have been calling for increased driver training for years now. Finally, its time for action. Enough of lip service to the "Driving is a privelidge" line. Make drivers of all ages EARN the right to drive. By undergoing rigorous training, and passing comprehensive driving skill tests. Apart from appreciating the cost of obtaining the licence, they will be more skilled and more able to manage the risks involved in driving. A side bonus for the Government will be a reduced need for police presence on traffic duty (which would offset the costs of increased driver skill testing), freeing them up to tackle other things.

    bob of Canberra Posted on 29 January 2010 4:32pm
  • What is wrong with some of the people on this forum? Get it out of your heads, that it's the type of car! An old EH holden can still do 140kph for gods sake! A mazda 3, a holden barina, a ford focus etc can also do the same speeds! We need a consensus of opinion about an intensive training course, for all drivers getting their learners, that covers all possibilities and contingency planning that young drivers might very well experience only once(which could be fatal) instead of blaming the cars, they don't crash by themselves get it!

    john walker of brisbane Posted on 29 January 2010 4:07pm
  • My Driver Education page on Facebook now has 75 members and is growing. we are trying to get the goverment to change how people obtain there driver's licence Driver Education Every part has objectives for practical and theoretical education. The objectives are placed in an order where relatively easy objectives are followed by more difficult ones, in order to make the education comprehensible. The objectives and content of the basic parts serves as a starting point for the arrangement of the following education. The curriculum acknowledges the fact that the operation of a vehicle is often dangerous and demanding for the driver. It is stated that a driver?s most important task is to acquire and process information. Moreover, the driver is supposed to perform the correct actions precisely and smoothly as well as safe and environmentally. Basic driving abilities: During this phase, the student should obtain necessary skills and become able to maintain good control of the vehicle in order to be able to concentrate on the content of the following education. This phase regard preparations before driving, vehicle controls, starting and stopping, turning in crossings etc. Traffic dr

    Brett Hughes of HOBART Posted on 29 January 2010 3:48pm
  • To obtain a drivers license in Europe, one has to be prepared to join a professional driving school and spend around 2,000 AUD$. The driving instructor decides when a student reached a stage where (s)he is ready for the theoretical and driving test. Most skills are acquired by driving on ice, snow, wet roads and driving manual cars; on average we attend 20 driving lessons until we are ready. We learn to gradually increase our speed as we gain more confidence and experience. In today's conditions I strongly recommend to only allow people with the right attitude onto our roads. As driving instructors we should be allowed to dob in irresponsible, immature high-risk students at VicRoads. I came across some who I refused to train any further - this happened in Melbourne.

    Michi Posted on 29 January 2010 2:50pm
  • What about the fundamental difference between FWD and RWD cars? As with most ppl, I learnt driving in a small FWD car. Learnt many "bad" driving practices which were ok for a FWD car. My first car was a RWD bomb. Learnt the fundamental difference between the two in the wet. Driving should be taught with that in mind I believe.

    Amup of Perth Posted on 29 January 2010 2:40pm
  • It's not just young people putting up the road tolls, how about elderly people who can't don't have as good reation times and drive out in front of cars, or the imigrants who can't even speak english, how can they understand road rules, i agree there should be more training by way of seeing what can really happen but we have to realise that with populations growing of course there's going to be more accidents on the road

    luke of brisbane Posted on 29 January 2010 2:17pm
  • The problem is that the states assume parents are all good drivers. The paretns then pass on their bad habits to teh kids. The kids get 120 hours of learning how to drive badly and then the test is 20 mins of drivng without crashing. Bingo we now have an appauling driver on the road ready to kill themselves and someone else. Start looking at what it takes to get your license in Germany and then we will see a change in driving skills in this country.

    DM Posted on 29 January 2010 1:21pm
  • I would like to see a tiered licensing system introduced. All learners would have to successfully complete at least a couple of basic driving courses from somewhere like Murcott's to get their P's. P-platers would then have to successfully complete a defensive driving course TWICE, proving their ability at controlling their car and knowing how to respond when something goes wrong. Then they get the most basic license, enabling them to drive only new cars of 2L capacity or less, with no turbos (except maybe on diesel cars) or older cars under a pre-set power to weight ratio. Any full licensed driver under 30 (age seems to be the barrier to stupidity, not neccessarily the type of car being driven) wanting to drive a high-po car (WRX STI, Skylines, V8's etc) should have to complete advanced drivers courses and get a higher tier of license to be allowed to own and drive such an automobile. The theory being they've actually learned proper car control before getting behind the wheel of a high-po car and they're older and more mature, thus far less likely to be engaging in hoon behaviour in the first place. Can't elaborate any more, no chars left!

    Simmo Barinsky Posted on 29 January 2010 12:54pm
  • Its not neccesarily training it is primarily hormones and attitude

    James Segedin of Cairns Posted on 29 January 2010 12:23pm
  • We have presumably a roughly equal number of female new drivers to male new drivers. So given the apparent gender imbalance in fatal crashes do we assume that somehow most female learners get adequate tuition whereas males don't? I think not.

    geff Posted on 29 January 2010 12:13pm
  • first of all, it would be cheaper to provide adequate training to these young people than to have these kids filling up hospitals. The costs to put one person through a trauma ward, then rehab in into the hundreds of thousands. Ask your self? how many young kids are injured or badly injured each year through there own stupidity. They take up beds for people struggling through no fault of there own awaiting surgery, and in some cases die before the get help. TAC also need to step in, it will take more than one party to make this happen. I have had enough, the buck stops here. You can't saw like an eagle when your thinking like a turkey.

    James Posted on 29 January 2010 12:01pm
  • How on earth, could a driver know ,how to control a vehicle that is a/ skidding b/ aquaplanes c/ bring a vehicle to a safe stop when a tyre has blown d/ brake correctly under all raod conditions etc. NONE OF THE ABOVE ARE MANDATORY TO KNOW BEFORE GETTING A LICENCE. Shame on government, who only are too eager to find new ways to tax road users through speed cameras and the like, and yet continue to allow totally unprepared and inexperienced drivers, to get into ANY CAR and put their life and others at risk.

    john walker of brisbane Posted on 29 January 2010 11:31am
  • Part of the problem is that we don't reward good driving we punish bad driving. Having levels of open licenses that require more training but have more relaxed conditions (such as more points) would reward people doing training, if you can get higher status associated with higher levels of licenses then you people will want to put the effort in to get skilled up. If a trick car is a status indicator so would be a higher level license as it shows you are competent. I know when I was young a CAMS license meant you could really drive not just be a show pony. So we need to reward good driving and get into the status culture of young people.

    Scott B. of Townsville Posted on 29 January 2010 11:21am
  • Bob Watson has said all that is true about the tragedy of uneducated teenagers being allowed to drive. Unfortuately we all believe we have the right to drive and anyting that stands in our way or slows us down will not be supported. Sadly politics is only about popularity so we cant expect any action to fix the problem, just band aids and tub thumping. However in private we all remember the test we took to get our license - 20 minutes driving in subrurban streets in light traffic. We pass a test that excludes driving over 60 - no wonder kids crash at speeds over 60!- that excludes wet weather, night driving, and peak hour traffic. Imagine a year 12 maths exam that tested only your ability to add and did not test for subratction, multiplication and division. We will say that it costs too much to properly educate our children - better to save money for the hospital bills or the funeral? Why don't we be honest and agree its education and then find a way to solve the problem. We are clever enough.

    Michael Carlyle-Taylor Posted on 29 January 2010 11:18am
  • I think alot of it has got to do with young driver arrogance rather than ignorance. How many young drivers ACTUALLY have "Accidents"?. There needs to be more ways to target driver behaviour so there isnt so many young drivers thinking its cool and necessary to flat foot it etc. At the moment these young drivers are making it hard for mature drivers to gain licenses and enjoy driving.

    Rosie of Nsw Posted on 29 January 2010 10:34am
  • Asgree with previous comment in congratulating Bob Watson,if we need to change culture it should commence in school.Year 7 would be an ideal starting point to ease them into it and having it all through to at least year 10 ,that way there is at least 4 years to teach everything covering all aspects of motoring,things like basic mechanics,safety,courtesy,respect and possibly culminate with visits to hospitals with talks and maybe lectures from all walks of life sharing their experiences.One other point advanced driver training should be compulsory for ALL people going for their licenses(with perhaps susidies from government). If the government are serious about road safety they have to make drastic changes to the current system which teaches how to pass a test not how to drive

    Peter Giordano of Melbourne Posted on 29 January 2010 10:14am
  • We've been saying it in NSW for years: motorists are cash cows for a revenue sucking government, whose only interest is getting more of them on the road as quickly as possible so that they can provide many decades of steady fines, fees and taxes - unless they get croaked. Not only is government unwilling to risk political fallout by making the licensing process meaningful, it is plainly uninterested in doing so. Indeed the RTA's so-called head of road safety, Dr Soames Job, actively argues AGAINST driver training. That's how cynical it is.

    Holden Caulfield of Sydney Posted on 29 January 2010 9:35am
  • Two things about this, when I was 15years old and living in Glenroy Victoria a chap that owned a disused trotting track and large paddock opened it up for kids to drive on. The only stipulation was that cars had to be towed there and you only drove in one direction. What a great learning experience for young kids to learn to control a car (or bomb) before obtaining a license. There was a large claypan and when itrained it was the best way possible to learn to control skids. I think areas should be put aside for this use. Also open race tracks to the hoons to get their rocks off, get them off the roads you will never stop fast driving that is dangerous on the roads. But you can them a safer supervised option where only the driver is in the vehicle and his mates are watching. Far better than all of them in the vehicle on our roads. My first long drive was to Echuca from Melbourne. Driving at night, as I rounded a bend I saw something on the road I knew instinctively that it was too late to brake or swerve to miss it. I hit a large steel esky, my car swerved and again from experience I knew not to hit the brakes hard. Result was two blown tyres, but an uninjured driver or car.

    Brian Trengove of Echuca Posted on 29 January 2010 9:30am
  • Congratulations Bob Watson for standing up and saying what should have been said ages ago.If an employer puts a young person ( or any person )for that matter, into a position without proper training and they get hurt then the employer would be in front of a workcover investigation before he knew it, yet the relevant traffic authorities can deem somebody competent to drive a car with absolutely no adequate training in how to handle a difficult situation of the correct attitude when driving. And even worse except for knowing the road rules there in no apptitude test to assess whether is actually capable of driving a car. The road toll lies solely the responsibility of the state governments in not providing a safe environment in which to drive a vehicle. The training should be part of the school curriculum,after all whats the point in having the smartest kids in the world if they're dead because they weren't trained properly to drive a car.

    Wayne Sands Posted on 25 January 2010 9:24pm
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