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Toyota Kluger VS Ford Territory

  • By Philip King
  • The Australian
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The mid-sized SUV is equipped with everything a soccer mum needs, causing more heartache for Ford's Territory.

Hill descent control is one of those electronic driver aids, increasingly common on SUVs, designed to take the guesswork out of off-roading. Judicious use of the brakes or low-range gears are needed to stop a vehicle running away dangerously on a steep slope. Hill descent systems do the braking for you.

Every four-wheel drive is different, though, and the first time I nudge one to the point of no return on a challenging descent, HDC button pressed, I instinctively hover one foot over the brake pedal just in case.

At the launch of the new Toyota Kluger at a 4WD park in Victoria early this week, I need not have worried. The second version for Australia of this mid-size SUV handled the rocky declines just as easily as it climbed the muddy inclines. Philosophically, it's from the soccer mum end of the market, but gizmos engaged, nerves were rapidly calmed.

The Ford Territory is another SUV designed very much with school runs in mind and it also offers hill descent control.

However, an electronic system isn't much use when you're careering down a sales slope. Since its brief heyday in 2005, the Territory has been suffering. Last year, as rising fuel prices scared buyers away from large vehicles, sales fell 22 per cent. Since then, the mid-size SUV segment has recovered strongly but the Territory has not. To the end of July it's down a further 7 per cent.

The Ford SUV has clung onto segment leadership while losing sales to new entrants like the Holden Captiva. But the Kluger, backed by the impressive marketing might of Toyota, it has the potential to accelerate the Territory's descent and steal its crown. This week's presentations were explicit about Toyota's intention to take on the locally built Ford. “We have a very simple goal,” said sales and marketing chief David Buttner, “to maximise sales in the medium SUV market.”

At $39,990 the Kluger range begins with a price disadvantage of $2000 against the cheapest Territory, but the Toyota product has been aimed with extreme accuracy at its target market. The Kluger can match the seven-seat capacity of the Territory and has an equipment list calibrated like a telescopic sight.

Toyota has done its homework and knows the importance of safety features on the school run, so the Kluger has lots of them, all standard. It even introduces something I was surprised to learn had yet to appear in a Toyota; active headrests to prevent whiplash.

Toyota knows that fuel thirst is a Territory weakness and so the Kluger is more economical to run, by more than one litre per 100km. It also comes with three years of fixed-price servicing.

Needless to add, the new Kluger is bigger, more powerful and better equipped than the previous model. It lacks a diesel engine in the range, but so does the Ford.

If you want one of those, then Toyota has the Prado, a more expensive, traditional mid-size off-roader.

But all the sales action these days is in crossovers and the most significant move by Toyota is to borrow Ford's approach in making four-wheel drive an option on an SUV. The standard Kluger, like the standard Territory, puts power to the tarmac via only two of its wheels.

Toyota expects the availability of a 2WD version to bring plenty of extra buyers to the badge. One executive forecast volumes at least quadruple the current running rate of 300 a month. At that level, the Kluger is edging into Territory territory. And you know when Toyota is willing to talk numbers, then its expectations are higher. The mid-size SUV segment is one of the few it doesn't lead.

Toyota describes the Kluger as effectively an Aurion wagon, referring to the company's locally built large car. Although the two vehicles don't share any sheet metal, they both employ the same platform engineering and 3.5-litre V6 engine. With Toyota's global bodyline production system, the Kluger could be built on the same assembly lines in Melbourne which make Aurion and Camry.

Although Toyota denies it, the possibility that the Kluger could be built at its Melbourne plant must figure in its thinking. At the moment, the Kluger is mainly a US market car, built in right-hand drive solely for Australia.

Making it here would help fulfil many of Toyota Australia's production goals and its belief it needs a third model to secure its future. Supplying untapped right-hand drive export markets from Australia could make Kluger volumes viable.

Right now though, it threatens to take sales from the Ford Territory just when Ford needs them more than ever to keep its Melbourne plant busy. The Territory is struggling at the showroom, but Ford's locally built Falcon, Fairlane and Ute are hurting even more.

Success for the Kluger and the chance to build it here could come at the price of yet more pain for Ford.

 

Comments on this story

Displaying 3 of 64 comments

  • Phhh this article mainly focuses on sales! I don’t really care what other people are buying! All I wanted to read was “actual” vehicle comparison!

    Greg of Newcastle Posted on 04 February 2012 10:05am
  • I really liked the article and the very cool blog.

    rtyecript of CA Posted on 22 August 2011 12:03pm
  • Ford Territory would not have the resale value of the Kluger.

    ross jones of western australia Posted on 14 August 2011 2:09am
  • Give me a Territory anytime!

    Jon Posted on 12 August 2011 11:19pm
  • The Territory is awesome. I would take the Territory any day over the Kluger so I did and bought one. LOVE IT!!!!

    Paul of Sydney Posted on 16 June 2011 10:47pm
  • Phillip King is obviously sold on the Kluger and concentrates on putting down the Territory.  He told us of the wonderful way the Kluger performed as a FWD, and how helpful the HTC is and how the Kluger has a glorious one litre edge over the Territory?s fuel economy. He didn’t say what type of Territory he was driving. Is the Kluger a FWD or like the Territory an AWD? There’s a hell of a difference, and what of the power and economy. Did he drive the six gear automatic Territory with its alternative sports selection for towing caravans or for fast speedy reaction times? Then there’s the electronic manual gear shift operation if you want, did he draw any comparisons as to the power and fuel economy with the use of these alternatives? What did he think of the tremendously small turning circle, not to mention all the safety features the Territory’s renowned for?  The Territory’s power comes from its proven six cylinder four litre engine and the use of its six gears. The fuel consumption on my 2007 Territory averages 12.5. I know very little of the Kluger but doesn’t it have a 4 cylinder engine with four speed transmission? The Ford Co; I’m not happy with. That’s another story.

    Denis Elliott of Berwick Posted on 10 February 2011 6:12pm
  • Most of the idiots commenting on this article braggin about their territory are comparing the old model Kluger against Territory?
    Shows how much car knowledge they have!  Do what I did, take everything for a drive, use them for few days, and then see which one wins out on refinement, ride, economy, space, quality, and despite the journos crap handles just as well.  See which one you like best.  We now have a 2010 Kluger in our driveway!!!

    Jim of Adelaide Posted on 04 January 2011 1:15pm
  • The Territory could have been awesome, but just far too many quality problems. If you buy one don’t keep it longer then 2 years, or the trouble begins. My 3 year old 58,000km one has been in and out of the service centre for various reasons over the last 12 months.  Felt really nice new, but now has become very loose and rattles everywhere.  Interior trims pieces have fallen off, and now I find that it has rust near the tail gate.
    Got a quote on trade-in price or private sale, and nearly choked.  Worth nothing after 3 years!  In comparison my friends 2007 Kluger has been faultless, and is very smooth and quiet like new.  His fuel economy is much better than mine, and his car just feels much nicer and more refined to travel in. I had a drive of his, and don’t feel the handling suffers at all compared to Territory, and ride is much better. He had a look at his resale, and it kills what I am looking at.  Wish I’d gone toyota.

    Andrew of Dubbo Posted on 04 January 2011 1:03pm
  • I have a 2005 Ford Territory TX SX basic model with a few optional extras added. It was a replacement vehicle for my previous car which was also a Ford. In comparison with a Toyota Kluger of the same era of 2005, the Territory produced more power than the Kluger, 182KW / 380NM vs Kluger’s 172KW / 328NM. Yes the Kluger is more fuel efficient, but it weighs 1740 KG vs Territory’s 2005 KG. Plus it also had an extra gear ratio compared to the 4-speed semi-auto.

    The 2005 release of the Toyota Kluger was downright ugly compared to the base model Territory.

    The only thing I have dramas with, is the brakes, as it is based on a Ford Falcon BA chassis, there are some inherent issues with brake discs and brake pads.

    I’ve owned this car for more than 12 months, even though its RWD, not AWD; I’ve had no issues driving it in the country.

    I have been in a newer version of the Kluger, a 2009 version; a higher specification, unfortunately I didn’t like it very much. If you want to pull heavy loads, then go for a Territory, the Kluger is still underpowered with antiquated torque, even though the newer variant of the Kluger has more KW. Its probably best serving for city driving instead.

    Henry of Melbourne Victoria Posted on 29 August 2010 10:53pm
  • Hi, I’m a Kluger convert.  After having ford falcons most of my driving life, I was certain my change into SUV would have been to the Blue oval.

    I had 2 months of looking at 3 SUVs (Territory, Klugar and Mazda cx9) all needed to be 7 seater.
    At the ned of my search, given i didn’t have the extrat $12-15k for the cx9, it came down to Toyota and Ford.
    I drove both for a weekend, I used it to move the extended family and basically gave it the ultimate soccer mum test.
    The result was easy for me. Toyota had many more standard safety features (reversing camera and 3rd row airbags), had better economy, interia was finished well with fantastic little bits of ingenious add-ons.  The other main selling point was the quality of the 3rd row.
    If you are serious about using the 3rd row, the territory was very disappointing, The Kluger seats and foot well were very well designed, with comfort and room for your legs and feet. I’ve since carried 7 adults in my Kluger and had no complaints from the back row.
    The only let down with my Toyota is the radio reception does not pick up a stereo frequency.
    I must say the ford exterior has a better look, but now very dated.

    Timbo of Gold Coast Posted on 10 July 2010 9:18am
  • Hi there, I have a Ford Territory 04. if you own a Territory you should open the back of the car and pull off the rubber down the bottom. Every Territory i have seen in the last 2 months have rust in cars as young as 3 months old. ford refuse to fix the problem because mine is over 5 yrs old.  It is a common problem with them but ford refuse to admit it. i have also found it in the ford escape so beware if u own one and have a look. if it is under 5 yrs old they will fix it so i recommend taking it into your Ford dealer and getting it fixed

    vix of forest lake Posted on 31 May 2010 6:03pm
  • My Ford Territory has been the best soccer mum car ever - masses of space in the seating and in the boot… once fit a whole corner bath in the back, a couch, several pallets, wardrobes, beds, you name it - we’ve had it it the back. 5 kids an easy fit too ofcourse. Steers well, accelerates well, brakes well, uses the same amount of fuel as any SUV… (not as good looking as a LEXUS or BMW I suppose!) Is there really any reason the Kluger is better or just a good PR camaign??

    Coral Van Toch of Sydney Posted on 06 May 2010 9:27pm
  • Holden Captiva is made in Korea X DAEWOO.

    MAKA ORYA of North Ryde Posted on 01 April 2010 8:51pm
  • I have a A.W.D Ghia Territory 2004 and have gone to trade it in a few times but cant find a better or more comfortable car.Forget toyota crap seats to costly to fix when the warrinty runs out.

    Tommy McCarroll of Sydney Posted on 19 March 2010 6:55pm
  • I have a 2007 Ford territory that is a piece of crap. Used to be a nice car though. For some reason the suspension just seems non existent as it thuds over the smallest bump on the road, the vibration trembling thru the car. Had it looked at 3 times now by a ford dealer only to be told that there is nothing wrong with it. Can’t think of one good reason to buy Australian. Previous car was a commodore. The rear left seat belt couldnt be put on when parked on a hill, but the right side could.  The dealer tried to tell me that it was normal operation not to be able to put a seat belt on on a hill, which meant my child had to sit un-belted until i was on a flat surface. When asked why the right side worked ok then, he said it must be faulty. Next car has to be an import, probably a Kluger, local industry is not interested in quality

    Peter Thompson of Central Coast Posted on 30 November 2009 5:13pm
  • I hear a lot of talk about reliability of Australian cars. I have had a lot of hard driven country miles in a succession of Falcons. I can assure you that these statements are mythical. I have never been let down by them and by the time we turn them in they are well used having clocked up 200,000ks plus. I recently went shopping to replace a Toyota Landcruiser 80 series that I have had since new, with something less hardcore.  The Kluger looks impressive but is not up to the mark dynamically with the Territory, particularly on loose surfaces. A diesel would be good though

    Geoff Roberts Posted on 11 April 2008 10:58am
  • Quote: At the moment, the Kluger is mainly a US market car, built in right-hand drive solely for Australia.

    Reply: Incorrect. Toyota Highlander is sold in New Zealand as a right hand drive.

    BTW I am averaging just over 14L/100km in city of Melbourne in my Kluger (Grande 4WD)

    Stephen Chan of Melbourne Posted on 15 January 2008 5:20pm
  • I find the Ford Territory to be more Safer and Stylish then the Kluger. Toyota make fine cars like the Yaris and Echo along with Landcruiser and Camry but when it come to the Kluger it brings the Toyota name down. I Have test Drive the Kluger and it didn’t meet my standeds of Safty, Style, Comfort or Room. I am more of a Ford man to begin with any way but i never thought looking at buying a Ford Territory would be so remarkable. I feel safe and secure when i drive it, the style of it just blows me away and i love the range of colours it comes in, and Family and I have enough room and comfort for those long drives. I have a Purple Territory and it is the most stunning thing I have driven and I can cart around all my Friends and Unexspected guests aswell as family

    Jamie Cislowski of Brisbane Posted on 13 January 2008 10:58pm
  • I just placed an order for the KX-S AWD.  I have been looking for a 7 seater for many months, and am fealing confident about my decision.  The Kluger is not nearly as impressive on paper as behind the wheel - the smooth 3.5 V6 motor is a clincher…  The Kluger in my mind comfortably beat out the following VW Caravelle (far too expensive), Captiva (Sharp deals and smart seating, but flat engines & bland interior), Territory (Cant swallow the styling) and Sante Fe (Concerned about Korean built & safety features)

    Overall - I love this car & am very excited.  An easy decision - but long wait with delivery estimated for late Feb / March.

    Byron Posted on 24 November 2007 4:07pm
  • I just placed an order for the KX-S AWD.  I have been looking for a 7 seater for many months, and am fealing confident about my decision.  The Kluger is not nearly as impressive on paper as behind the wheel - the smooth 3.5 V6 motor is a clincher…  The Kluger in my mind comfortably beat out the following VW Caravelle (far too expensive), Captiva (Sharp deals and smart seating, but flat engines & bland interior), Territory (Cant swallow the styling) and Sante Fe (Concerned about Korean built & safety features)

    Overall - I love this car & am very excited.  An easy decision - but long wait with delivery estimated for late Feb / March.

    Byron Posted on 24 November 2007 4:07pm
  • Both the kluger and the Territory are not fuel effecient.
    when will toyota address this with a low emissions fuel effecient diesel engine.
    I note that the Holden Captiva has just done this.

    Vincent Mumford Posted on 17 September 2007 1:22pm
  • I suggest we get the toyota kluger because it is japenese made.Japenese people are like the smartest people in the world.The kluger dosnt have to pay a lot of money for fuel like the territory either.But to be fair to ford, I reckon the territory is a great suv but it is not good enough to match the kluger, so,, oh what a feeling TOYOTA

    Someone Posted on 17 September 2007 10:43am
  • I must agree the middle seat that folds away is really poor it is the only thing I dislike on the Kluger. I have 3 kids and the middle seat is a problem it is skinny and hard my 8 was not impressed. A long trip is out of the question without using the 3rd row,which means luggage on the roof racks ! Otherwise I like it especially the Grande > I have heard a new territory is coming out so i may wait.

    eric Posted on 17 September 2007 10:43am
  • I agree with Chris Graham's comments on the new Kluger's middle seat on the second row. Toyota must really do something about it. Toyota should also consider bringing back the arm rests for the front row seats, which come in particularly useful on long trips. Apart from these, the new Kluger is excellent!

    Alan Wong Posted on 17 September 2007 10:43am
  • We went and took a Kluger Grande for a test drive on the weekend. For the front row, the layout is great, very comfortable, exellent visiblity, Drives smoothly and powerfully when you need it.  No problems for the driver and front passenger.
    The point I want to make is that this car is NOT a practical seven-seater, because the middle seat on the second row is useless. It is narrow, hard as a rock, and as no ergonomic design built into it. You could not have someone sit in it for more than 20minutes, any longer would make for a very uncomfortable passenger. You could not do any serious road tripping in that seat.  This effectively makes the Kluger a 6 seater. If you have a family of four, this is a great car. It would allow you to pick up the relatives from the airport, yet still allow the family to have a great road trip with the 3rd row down to allow for the luggage. However if you have 5 in the family(like mine),becuse of the useless seat in the middle of the 2nd row, the rear row would have to stay permanently up, taking up all your luggage space as the rear row does not split.
    As much as I want to consider the Kluger, having a family of 5 means that I cannot use the Kluger in its new configuration.  A great model upgrade has been let down by the middle seat being treated as a design after-thought, more effort being put into how it can be hidden away, rather that what a seat is meant for (ie sitting on).  I challenge anyone to take the test drive from that middle seat, see how long you last.

    Chris Graham Posted on 13 September 2007 12:05pm
  • I agree with Daniel, most of you are comparing the old Kluger with the Territory however it is the new one (has only been released 3 weeks)  that is going to compete, justifiably against the Kluger.  Friends of our have just bought the middle of the range Territory and we have order the middle range Kluger.  The only extra we paid for is roof racks, bonnet protector and mudguards.  They paid extra for sports trim (leather inserts), full leather is standard in Kluger, tinted windows (standard in Kluger), reversing camera (standard in Kluger), 18" alloys (19" standard on kluger) and the list goes on.  My point is a lot of you are whinging that the Kluger is so much more expensive but when you compare apple with apples, the Kluger actually comes off cheaper with better quality of drive, fittings and resale value down the road!

    Mark Posted on 10 September 2007 10:09am
  • My wife and I have decided to trade our 06 Jeep Cherokee and look at the territory turbo Ghia and the new Kluger Grande AWD.Being a holden man myself I was completely open to either car and had no favorites.After spending a fair bit of time in both with my family of four we made a very easy decision as one of them was better in many ways especaily ,Build quality,standard features,superior drive ,more roomier and just looked better…So the deal was done and in four weeks time we get our new AWD Graphite Kluger Grande.

    Can't wait.

    Darryn Posted on 03 September 2007 9:43am
  • THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING. Recently my sister was in the market for this type of vehicle and after test driving both of these and some other options she went for the Territory as the Kluger illustrated a distinct lack of power going up the hills. No point in worrying about how to get down if you can't get up in the first place!

    steve Posted on 30 August 2007 9:55am
  • E Nuff: "Our government pouring millions into Ford year in year out…." What about our government pouring millions into EVERY manufacturer her in Oz, TOYOTA included?

    Biggest problem with the Luger is it's lack of towing capability 2000kg is not even up to a Commodore, let alone the even beginto compete with the Territory. Would you honestly tow an 1800kg caravan/boat (+ loading with clothing, water, food etc) with a FWD 6cyl Camry wagon???
    And guys, claiming theat the Territory has a "bad reputation for quality/reliability" on a forum like this does not make it so I'm afraid - there is just too much evidence to the contrary!

    Bret Posted on 29 August 2007 4:02pm
  • Having had a commodore for several years, I wanted something that was different and had a good reputation.After doing my homework for a long time we settled for a CV KLUGER 25KM on the clock and immaculate .I absolutely love the car and its all that we need as a family .Looking forward to trading up to tye new model in the future.Unfortunately the other makes were no comparison and the KLUGER won hands down.

    sean oneill Posted on 21 August 2007 9:58am
  • Mark

    Laudible sentiments - thank god Toyota manufactures in Australia - but the days are long gone when we buy inferior products -just because they are Australian.  I was a "Commodore" man many years ago but got sick and tired of irritating quality issues - went to Ford and it was worse…switched to Toyota eight years ago - never looked back. When and if the locally designed product delivers I will certainly consider buying again - unlike many ,I am not rusted on to any brand -they must earn my loyalty…but for me they aren't there yet.  Mind you if I end up with the Presara I am buying a product with a great deal of local input.

    Double Posted on 17 August 2007 10:31am
  • Buy the Ford Territory! Supporting Aussie manufacturing ensures our children's future in the manufacturing industry and the money STAYS in Australia , not going overseas! Lets have an Aussie car maker NUMBER 1 in Australia !!  Aussie! Aussie! Aussie ! Oi ! Oi ! Oi !

    Mark OMealley Posted on 16 August 2007 5:55pm
  • I was thinking very seriously of buying a Presara for the work/family hack - poor mans Lexus for sure.  This thing made me pause - poor mans RX 330?  The Ford is a very good vehicle for sure, but apart from the six speed - it is a bit crude for my tastes - and it has a terrible reputation on quality issues - I won't chance it i'm afraid - not doubting what Harold reports tho. -not all duds Where the Ford shines i would rarely go day to day - and its not as if it is that much better dynamically…. but, every time I turn the key on this jigger I get the quality refinement and gizmos that make daily driving a pleasure.  There wasn't one at the Toyota dealer on the weekend so i will wait and see.

    Double Posted on 15 August 2007 4:46pm
  • I agree with most of the people, Stop bad mouthing the other companies.  You have to let people make up their own mind.  My brother inlaw owns a Kluger and he thinks it's the best, but when he hoped into a territory he took his comments back and started thinking what he just said.  He has had nothing but trouble with Toyota Kluger so he is thinking about trying the other companies to see WHO can give him the best deal in town.  So stop bad mouthing other people and let the buyer make the decision.  Just remember that you have to pay the fuel, rego,servicing etc etc

    Bradley Stevens Posted on 15 August 2007 10:10am
  • I own a Territory and its a great car, if I put aside the appalling attitude of my local Ford dealer principal.

    To be fair to Toyota though, all the negative comments about how small it is, power etc are basically irrelevant as this is an all new model and what people are talking about is the now obsolete model. This car is bigger and more powerful for starters, so its a new ball game.

    The fact that Ford decontented the Territory not long ago and then did a 180 degree turn and put all the stuff back in the Terri, tells me that Ford have drive the new Kluger and it scared them a bit.

    Dan

    Daniel Dacey Posted on 15 August 2007 10:10am
  • i didn't think much of your so called road test and review of the new kluger, from what i read, you review the hill descent only. give us a real road test. as for a couple of faults on the territory that no one mentions ......there are no water drain holes on the steel wheel rims, dust leaks onto the rear wheel arches between the door rubbers and soils your clean clothes when getting in and out, to date ford have not over come these faults. Reg

    r jamieson Posted on 15 August 2007 10:10am
  • I have a Ford Territory AWD Ghia 2007 model and have been absolutely delighted at how this car drives. I use it daily for work and have driven to Melbourne twice and really feel this car offers great value for money. It drives more like a car than a SUV as it does not roll on corners. It has plenty of power when required however is nice and quiet when cruising. The six speed auto is fantastic with gear changes being seemless. When driven in a "spirited" manner, the combination of power and great gear box see the car launch & hold gears on command. This article really did nothing to really compare the cars. If 1litre per 100km's is enough to sway you towards the Kluger and sacrifice the effortless power of the Territory, then good for you. I am happy to pay an extra $1.30 per 100km for this great driving car.

    Harold Posted on 15 August 2007 9:54am
  • I do agree that the ford has a very thirsty power plant but with the closure of the Australian plant that builds the 4.0ltr will the new power plant that ford have in mind to replace the current model and gain back the fuel savy market. I look forward to the up and coming models.

    Troy Brady Posted on 15 August 2007 9:44am
  • I had a territory as a work car thank goodness I did not pay for the fuel bill 16l/100k on the highway.  Give 40,000ks trim falls off the door rattles biggest load of rubbish give me a Subaru or Toyota any day.  Subaru 100,000 on the clock still goes well no rattles only uses OIL.

    Mad-man Posted on 15 August 2007 9:44am
  • And so the debate continues - shame we couldn't slip a Holden in also. The fact is the Territory has been a great success and not suprising, the fuel consumption is the greatest single fault. It's heavy; it's not aerodynamic (SUV's rarely are) and it has a lot of power and is a top end tow vehicle. So you can't have every thing. Maybe Kluger will steal some sales from Territory - at the present time the Territory outnumbers the Kluger by 10 to 1 , so there is some room for Ford to move. The real question is why haven't both moved to new generation diesel. Like another correspondent said , the Holden Captiva and Hyundai Santa Fe have the economy - why not follow. The Europeans have had good diesels for some time and now they are getting to Australia. Why are we so far behind. I hate to admit it, but NZ is about 2 years ahead of us with diesels. The new Kia 2.5 L tubo diesel Sorento is due out in a fortnight here but its the second generation diesel for them in NZ - been an option for more than 2 years. Is it our Government or is diesel just cheaper overseas compared to gasoline ( like it used to be here).  Territory, Kluger and space for others with diesel economy—let the fight begin.

    Roger Clough Posted on 15 August 2007 9:44am
  • Nothing new here among most of the comments except that the Kluger is an improvement over the outgoing model. Having seen it up close today - a line of them were doing circuits in my neighborhood (likely a client or press preview) - one thing is clear: Toyota will own this segment in a short space of time as they do almost every other one. The quality is obvious and no amount of one-eyed chest beating from a handful of diehards from either camp will change the fact that Toyota build better cars that more people prefer than any other manufacturer. Our government pouring millions into Ford year in year out just to support a few hundred jobs is not good business practice, after all the sales achieved with the introduction of the Territory were mostly made at the expense of the Falcon. Any new car is expensive and as consumers we deserve value for our hard-earned, and when other manufacturers can match or exceed Toyota's quality then we can all shut up and choose a car that suits us based on tangibles instead of emotion.

    E Nuff Posted on 15 August 2007 9:44am
  • i agree as well,the article seems biased.It seems the old idea of if its Japanese so its got to be better is still around.If iam going to spend that type of money,i will go the Ford.Any way it looks a lot better

    Richard Marshall Posted on 14 August 2007 6:10pm
  • There are some of us who are happy to have a base model vehicle without all the bells and whistles. I find it astonishing that the new base model Kluger does not have roof rails. It is after all a SUV. If Toyota are expecting me to pay a whopping 10K more for the mid range model to get roof rails then they are sadly mistaken. As a result I will consider an alternative brand.

    Howard Posted on 14 August 2007 4:51pm
  • yep i have to agree, this article was a bit biased for my liking and lacked a lot of detail. come on give the territory some credit for leading the way in the segment for starters and then how about the fact that the kluger is just released whereas the territory is a few years old and the refreshed model is only around the corner. how about a comparison on styling?
    well the "old" territory still leaves the new kluger for dead there.

    andrew Posted on 14 August 2007 4:38pm
  • Sometimes its better to pay,the extra for the grunt and know you have saved jobs.Yes the toyotas are a better car but our suvs a great to.I love my fords and will allways my wife drives one of the knew taragos and loves it so do I,she loves my fairmont ghia. to .drive to and if I had to pick sorry toyota jobs in our country will allways come first,your cars are srcond to non but if we took your jobs your people would be shitty to.

    opinion Posted on 14 August 2007 4:38pm
  • I have a 2006 Territory, fantastic drive (performance, brakes etc) and great handling on rough country roads. Unfortunately if the power is there I use it, not a good combination in this case. If they can solve the fuel economy problem I would buy another in a flash (despite it being a Ford!). The Kluger is yet another over priced Toyota (I replaced the Ford with a Prado, and also own a Hilux so I can say that), technically great but with with no more character than a refrigerator on wheels!.

    David Posted on 14 August 2007 2:36pm
  • We have a 05 Territory AWD Ghia.  Looked at the Kluger at the time of purchase but the towing capacity was not as good as the fords.  While the territory has not been without its problems such as DSC and cruise failing (twice for the same faulty sensor) as well as the infamous "door flying open" problem (why that was not a recall is anyones guess) its been a picture of reliability.  Motor is rock solid, enough storage space to hide as many bodys as you care to dismember and a good towing capacity made it a simple choice.

    Aaron Miles Posted on 14 August 2007 2:31pm
  • Was this article paid and written for by a Toyota marketing executive? I personally prefer neither vehicle and love the BMW X5. However I don't love a clearly bias depiction of one automotive manufacturer vs. another which is clearly the case here, If you want people to continue t take your publication seriously you should publish informative and objective unbiased commentary

    David Posted on 14 August 2007 2:31pm
  • Think about .. Ford Territory is still using the old school Barra straight in line six engine. Nowadays everyone talking about V6 hype . Landrover ( owned by ford ) has used common ford engine for example four cylinder diesel engine used by Ford Transit in its defender range.

    If ford started to import cheaper V6 engine to be used in our falcon or Territory , chances are jobs will be lost in Geelong..

    Liu Posted on 14 August 2007 1:39pm
  • After putting up with poor ergonomics, uncomfortable seats, lack of simple interior niceties like compartments for your things and being able to run an Ipod through the stereo for example, and a service department that would or could not fix strange brake and suspension noises I have recently got rid of my 18 month old Toyota (with a considerable loss I might add) for a Territory SR pack, which was great value for money.

    Even though I may visit the bowser more often, it is a small price to pay for a great, all round vehicle that is comfortable and extremely versatile. If the amount of compliments and questions I get about the Territory is anything to go by, I would say a Kluger, with marginally better fuel consumption and without a diesel option won't hurt the Territory a great deal sales wise.

    Brent Posted on 14 August 2007 1:30pm
  • We have the 2006 Territory and love it! We looked at the Kluger and the room wasnt there with the 7 seats as it is with the Territory. We were on the freeway this morning and the average fuel was 8.1/100km so I was impressed with that. It is a shame Territory is getting a bad wrap at the moment, everyone we know with one loves theirs. My only fault with the territory is where the time is situated! - the clock in on the roof near the windscreen which means you have to take your eyes off the road to see the time

    S.R Posted on 14 August 2007 1:30pm
  • Once again an innovative Aussie idea is trampled into the dust by the imported copycats. Toyota's global-gorilla sized pricing power, and cheaper imported edge will ensure that it wins this fight. Don't expect another Territory after SZ.

    Sir Osis Posted on 14 August 2007 12:59pm
  • Yes Toyota Build some great products and I have owned a few, however I would give FORD a "Fair Go" as this is our local work force, If FORD and HOLDEN close their plants in Australia not only do we have higher unemployment but also we end up driving "Nipon Clipons' and other models made over seas often in 3rd world factories were wages are low.
    FORD need a Diesel engine for the TERRITORY and the new Land Rover V6 or 4 could be the way to go. Toyota have missed it with a v6 Petrol is only going to get dear and it is strange but car engines are getting bigger, I know they often use less but a Modern Diesel is Economical and clean compared to the old rattlers.

    David Hayden Posted on 14 August 2007 12:59pm
  • Great article but hardly informative or comparative between the Territory and Kluger. How about some dimensional differences other than l/100km? i.e. boot space, leg room, towing capacity resale value etc. Either way, in 2007 why would you go past the Captiva Diesel or the Sante Fe Diesel in this segment for long term value? Both diesels mentioned chew around 75% of the fuel that the big V6 petrols do and also the 4 cylinders get registration concessions in some states.

    Wayne Hobbs Posted on 14 August 2007 12:59pm
  • I have recently looked at cars in these segments and the Territory was just too big for what we wanted. The Kluger didn't even get a look in as it doesn't use that much less fuel but has nowhere near the urge of the Territory, And Toyota, I just couldn't see myself buying a car with a name like 'Kluger'. I am sure you could find a much better name and tool up to produce the badges for only a small fraction of the billions Toyota supposedly have stashed away.

    Warren Inman Posted on 14 August 2007 12:59pm
  • I am always surprised by blinkered reviews and comments by both car testers and amateur commentators. I've owned a Kluger for 25 months and am aware of both its good and bad points. It has very good fuel economy for a 4WD (especially on the open road); is easy to drive and has a very spacious and lightfilled cabin; overtaking acceleration at 80 to 120 km/hr is excellent and handling and steering on dirt roads is first class. However, it understeers badly on good roads; steering is too light for my liking and body roll can be unnerving as it shifts and resets during cornering.
    I'm sure that the Territory has good and bad points as well. It would be great if people could cover all aspects objectively and then we could decide for ourselves which features matter to us and which don't. Just blindly sticking up for a brand or model doesn't make any sense at all to me.

    John Ascenzo Posted on 14 August 2007 12:59pm
  • I have 3 young kids.  Althought not law yet, we have our children in anchored car seats.  The Kluger CANNOT accomodate 3 anchor points due to it's second row seat configuration.
    The law is changing regarding the age that kids must be in car seats and the Kluger will not be an option for families with 3 young children.  This is a huge oversight by Toyota and to my mind doesn't make this a great family car at all!
    I bet your Toyota sales person won't point out that fact to unsuspecting buyers.

    Mike Posted on 14 August 2007 12:49pm
  • I aggree with litapajar. New Kluger is a great car. But it is not cheap. I need a 7 seaters. Kluger is in my consideraton. But with the price like this. I will wait until there is a special offer. And desiel option is missed!

    Daniel Wo Posted on 14 August 2007 12:49pm
  • I thought the feedback that I have here is of important interest to many as I quite often see and hear of the Territory supposed high fuel consumption. To put this in context I am more long term a GM Holden fan , so this isnt biased information , I have a 300 KW HSV an XU1 and A9X Torana both from new as well. When the SY 6 speed Territory came out , we currently had a Jackaroo Equipe that we had purchased new . As we had a 6 year old child we looked at what we could buy next that especially had side airbags for our son. I drove other types of makes of 4wd and SUV , s etc but what a surprise when I drove the 190 kw Territory Ghia , its handling was more in character as per my HSV , brakes great etc etc. There was no body roll and the car was so good overall. With my wife driving in her typical routine, school , shops etc , the fuel consumption wasnt much diffrent to the V6 Jackaroo but with obviously more power having 190 kw. We had that vehicle for just over 1 year and decided to go for the Territory Ghia Turbo . After now having this for nearly 5 months all I can say it is near as the best car I have driven as a package for a family car and a great surprise with my wife driving exactly the same routes as before and the turbo version is running between 1 and 2 litres per 100 kilometers cheaper and these are worst case short run conditions. Even more surprising was a recent long distance run where I filled the tank , reset the litres per 100 k, s and on return home we averaged 9.8 litres per 100 k, s after using cruise control on the road at between 100-110 k, s speed range. This is just so good for such a large vehicle and we look forward to our next cruise down to the south of Western Australia next month. It is interesting to note with a previous Fairmont Ghia 165 KW station wagon we had before the Jackaroo, that it was using 4.5 lp 100 kilometers more than the turbo Territory doing exactly the same trip cycle and as a direct comparison to my HSV 300 kw on the recent highway cycle trip , the turbo was 4 lp 100 k, s better on exactly the same trip route. This obviously isnt a good comparison to the HSV being so performance based.
    Hopefully overall this gives the TRUE overall fuel consumption figures of the Territory and Territory Turbo in a family use application, rgds Terry Hewitt

    TERRY HEWITT Posted on 14 August 2007 12:49pm
  • It appears that Toyota has created a winner in the segment.  However, due to current increase in interest rate and uncertainity in future rate rises, i am not sure if Toyota would have it so easily.  Alternative options from Holden and Hyundai provide price incentives.  All safety features are a great welcome but it feels that its coming at a price, compared to Holden Captiva at least. 

    Although some stories highlight the price reduction for the entry model Kluger to $39990, they don't highlight the fact that its not an entry model in the AWD range.  When we look at AWD prices, new Kluger (5 seater) KX-R AWD is $44,490 which is $2500 more than the outgoing AWD model ($41,990).  If the new Kluger has more safety features, then isn't that extra $2500 paying for it?  Improvements as part of technology development are common to any upgrades.  Therefore, in reality, the new Kluger is more equipped than the outgoing model and customers will be paying for it. 

    My theory is to compare apples with apples to get a clear picture.  I am analysing this as i need a new car, and I am not going to rush to toyota thinking new Kluger is cheaper than the outgoing model.

    litapajar Posted on 14 August 2007 10:11am
  • Saw the new Kluger today. First impression is that price is competitve, safety levels appear high but it's external design appears somewhat ugly when compared to the Nissan Murano and Ford Territory. US reports say middle second row seat can be uncomfortable in the 7 seater so it may be better as 6 seater.

    Alex Robertson Posted on 14 August 2007 9:49am
  • We're all shaking in our boots!Here comes Toyota with it's new Kluger.After reading this article all that seems to be missing is the white horse and then the all conquering Kluger story would be complete.So it's only taken Japan 3 years to catch up to the Territory(by the way I drive one!)and they still can't match the Territory's on road or maybe even off road ability.Add side air curtains to the base model at $800 and you would still be $1200 in front(just enough for a nice set of alloys).Even allowing for the high price of petrol Ford still manages to shift around 20,000 units p.a. and with the new SZ model due in '08
    all still looks good for this modern Aussie Icon.As for the Toyota Marketing Department,what happened with the outgoing Kluger model?Even they couldn't do with the Kluger what they did with most of their other passenger vehicles.

    Joe Paglia Posted on 14 August 2007 9:45am
  • The new Toyota Kluger is probably the most exciting new family car in the year 2007. I am a current owner of the just superseded Kluger and I must say that it is a very comfortable car to live it everyday, especially if you have kids. Just took my Kluger to the snow resort over the weekend and I was very satisfied with its perfomance and functions. Didn't need snow chains fitted despite bad weather up there, that saved me time and the hassles. It also returned good fuel economy eg. from Melbourne CBD to Mt Baw Baw, its average fuel consumption of 12.8 litre/100kms with full 5 passengers and full baggage, ski gears on board! The new Kluger according to Toyota can achieve better fuel consumption and is better than the superseded model in every single aspects. I can't wait to test drive one and hopefully be able to trade-in my Kluger for the new one.

    Tim Posted on 14 August 2007 9:45am
  • I had a 2004 Kluger CVX and it was great! I'll be visiting my local Toyota next Feb for the NEW Kluger when my current lease expires. Can't wait.
    Question: I have not seen any Aurion TRD on Melbourne road yet. Is Toyota selling them at all or is it priced too high that people opted for the HSV/FPV instead? Myself i would rather put the 60K towards an HSV instead of the Aurion TRD.

    Michael Le Posted on 13 August 2007 5:41pm
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