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Torana TT36 concept a reality?

  • By Stephen Ottley
  • The Daily Telegraph
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GM is planning on creating a a rear-wheel-drive, 3 Series-type at a much more affordable price.

A new GM car with its roots in the Holden Torana and a mechanical package developed from the VE Commodore, could be on the road by 2011. It will be rear-wheel-drive like the Commodore, but smaller and linked to the Torana TT36 concept seen at the 2004 Australian International Motor Show.

The idea for a born-again Torana; probably to be called the Pontiac G6; was first floated by the former head of GM Holden, Peter Hanenberger, who believed it was the right car to give GM a prestige rival to the BMW 3 Series.

Development of the car is now under way and General Motors vice-president of product development, Bob Lutz, confirms details first leaked through the powerful United Automobile Workers union in the US.

Lutz, speaking during a visit to Melbourne to check on technical work at Fishermans Bend, says the compact will be in production within five years.

The UAW has already revealed it will be built at a factory at Lordstown, Ohio and will be developed from the Global Alpha mechanical platform.

Lutz says the Torana TT36 is a good pointer to the newcomer. “From a size and proportions standpoint that's what we're looking at,” he says.

“That's about the size were looking at, but that wasn't completely worked out. That was a sort of truncated Commodore, the components in that.”

Lutz says the new compact would work well with the Pontiac brand, which is already committed to a re-badged and re-styled Commodore which will be sold as the G8.

“Pontiac wants to be a sporting rear-wheel-drive brand,” Lutz says.

“So we have several brands that would be potential beneficiaries of a small rear-wheel-drive architecture and ... Holden is, obviously, one of the logical ones.”

He says the car could give GM a crucial point of difference in a crowded marketplace. “Because everybody has highly competent front-wheel-drive sedans and they all look more or less the same,” Lutz says.

“And the way to get a slightly different proportion and to do something different, because I'm a firm believer nowadays that if you want to grab market share you have to do something different. "

“If you do the same thing that everybody else is doing and you just do it a little bit better you'll kind of hold your own. But I'm a firm believer that, hey, when everybody else is doing small front-wheel-driver cars, which are excellent cars; but let's do something different for Pontiac.”

Even if the car is targeted at the 3 Series it will be cheaper.

“Well, you'd definitely never price at that level,” Lutz says. “That's the whole premise ... a 3 Series-type car but priced at a more affordable level."

“You'd basically have 3 Series ride, handling, steering, all of the dynamic qualities of a smallish rear-wheel-drive sedan; the lighter weight, the ability to use four-cylinder engines; and not have to carry around a big V6 or V8 lump of an engine up there."

“And you'd have a very nimble, very agile, dynamically pleasing car reminiscent or great driving German rear-wheel-drive sedans but at a much lower price point.”

 

Comments on this story

Displaying 3 of 46 comments

  • i agree with Allex from Bankstown. come on Holden pull your finger out wheres our Aussie Torry

    Rob B Mt Richon of Australia Posted on 28 April 2012 5:12pm
  • what was wrong with the tt36 concept. Id buy one and I suspect a lot of torana enthusiasts would gm head office in detroit dont want a smaller subsidiary to make a better car than they can and also they do not want to get the powerful us auto workers union offside by importing cars that can be made in usa.

    David of Melbourne Posted on 17 April 2012 11:16pm
  • I just visited the pontiac website in America and saw the pontiac G6. this car looks like a bloody ugly Chrysler neon. So much for the TT36 Torana... If holden were smart with the way fuel prices are going now they would have introduced and put an Australian built midsized car into production already. The TT36 woud have been a perfect candidate. Yet we are looking at cheap daewoos (Epica) and Pontiacs instead. You know its these things that make me feel holden just dont wanna be innovative and will trade up Australian production for cheap imports. So why tickle our taste bids with concept cars when you won't even make them? You can prove you can make them so how hard is it? Really?

    Alex A of Bankstown Posted on 31 March 2008 1:30am
  • That sean kid is pretty cool except he sux at spelling

    Snowy Posted on 06 March 2008 2:28pm
  • That sean kid is pretty cool except he sux at spelling

    Snowy Posted on 06 March 2008 2:25pm
  • 'What.', torana ? Dont you mean terdruna,dont matta what badge they put on it,It will not be a match for a BMW cos if its made by THE GENERAL Its gonna be cheap n nasty & lack the euro class, As always.

    michael kocks Posted on 25 October 2007 9:39am
  • maybe arron could go buy a prius and on the way read up on that stuff whats it called Oh L.P.G. Im not arrogant aaron my v8 statesman (on L.P.G) gets more km per dollar than alot of newer 4cyl cars running on petrol and yes the fumes are cleaner, im not suggesting they make a bowser junkie just that they recognise that the name TORANA comes with a history of yes 4 cyls but also bathurst winning 6 and 8 cylinder engines if people want economy buy a barina. i am just proud of the TORANA history and feel it would be a shame to use that name on something that resembles nothing of what we remember it by.

    jed barnett Posted on 25 October 2007 9:39am
  • Who cares. It wont be built here. It wont be Australian. Call it what you want. Call it Korean even. When the last Aussie Commodore comes off the line, will Holden be Chinese? What on earth is going on at Holden. How about something different. How about design, develop and manufacture a car in Australia and sell it in America. Then you can call it a Torana, or anything you like. Just dont call it Korean, as we really dont need any more crap here. We need jobs and we need to keep the car industry in Australia alive.

    Rob Posted on 25 October 2007 9:39am
  • may be Jed and other arrogant petrol heads need to realize this small car will replace falcons and commodores as we strive for a cleaner and more efficient motoring world.

    aaron Posted on 24 October 2007 11:21am
  • a reshaped and updated 4 cylinder VH commodore, yuk, needs at least a small 6 option. would needs very smooth revy motors and more power than an orion. a hatchback styled version with rear drive would be cool but a small motor would kill this car for many. the 3.8 is very compact. waht is the weight space saving to go smaller capacity.

    Roger W. V8 Biased Posted on 24 October 2007 11:21am
  • It's great to see that G.M. is considering to bring back the Torana. I for one would give it some serious thought. I hope that Holden makes the car as versatile as the old model, by that I mean you can adapt any size motor to any type of gearbox to give the performance that is required. I also hope that the Torana doesn't have a short life like the Monaro had, mainly caused by the high price tag with low trade in prices. Reliability should be no.1, affordability should also be cosidered, especially for low wage earners.

    Brian Barker Posted on 24 October 2007 10:21am
  • Regardless of what they will eventually call it, this 'Australian ' car will be made in America. They can make and sell cars cheaper in America (apparently), but build quality will suffer. If there were imported back into Australia its unlikely they could cope with rough dirt roads that the Commodore, Falcon, 380 and the Australian Camry/Aurion (they modify them for heavier duty) can handle. A 4 cyclinder engine isn't necessarily any more efficient, take the Camry/Aurion for example. Even the Aurion engine has room for significant effiency improvements. In response to Tommy's comment about the Corolla Ae86, that weight was typical of cars of the day, including the Ford Laser etc. Safety wasn't so much a consideration, with the seabelt being the only real safety feature. In a crash with a modern vehicle, they'd crumple like a tin can. All the safety features, and structural integrity of modern cars have added several hundred kilograms!

    Michael Posted on 24 October 2007 10:16am
  • A small to medium size rear wheel drive car, what a fabulous idea. I like commodores, but they are just too large and heavy now, getting very close to a couple of tonne. All those extra kilos knock their performance and economy. Something around the size of the early vb vl commodore at 1200 to 1300 kilos would win me, but for christ sake at least put the 3.6 litre v6 in it with a 6 speed manual option.

    Keith Hawley Posted on 24 October 2007 10:16am
  • A small to medium size rear wheel drive car, what a fabulous idea. I like commodores, but they are just too large and heavy now, getting very close to a couple of tonne. All those extra kilos knock their performance and economy. Something around the size of the early vb vl commodore at 1200 to 1300 kilos would win me, but for christ sake at least put the 3.6 litre v6 in it with a 6 speed manual option.

    Keith Hawley Posted on 24 October 2007 10:16am
  • WTF i am a die hard torana fan currently doing up a v8 LH hatch, the torana was the only reason for me going to the 2004 motorshow i thought finally they are going to release a car that thousands of aussies would love to buy and then to say no we wont release them is bad enough but to turn around 3 years later and say they will release a weak ass four cylinder only version and name it something else is stupidity their marketing division is on crack. give the people who truly love toranas some respect and stop even thinking about re releasing the torana if A. it wont be called a torana and B. it would be an under nourished 4 cyl . it makes me sick

    jed barnett Posted on 24 October 2007 10:16am
  • Finaly! A design that stands out from the pack. This would sell like hot cakes with a high perfromance V6 or small V8. Rear wheel drive + a good power-to-weight sounds like the missing link in Holdens line up. I hope the production model isn't "tuned down" too much from the concept.

    Karl Posted on 24 October 2007 9:57am
  • So.. GM (USA?) Are building a Pontiac, from commodore parts, based on the Torana concept. As far as that says, no one here in australia should be worried about what engine it has, because they aren't going to get the chance to drive it. The only small commodores you are likely to see here are the same Daewoo's that are already in Holden showrooms.

    Ricardo Williams Posted on 24 October 2007 9:57am
  • What a pointless excersise this article was. This has almost zero to do with the Torana (Which quite frankly is puting shame to the name of such a legendary car).

    Tom Oliver Posted on 24 October 2007 9:47am
  • i think the new torana, but drop at least a turbo 6 in it, it looks really good and the yanks would love the styling

    Sean Slevison Posted on 24 October 2007 9:47am
  • Sounds like a good idea to me, a cheaper, smaller, more fuel efficient commodore wins my appeal anyday. It means that more people will be able to get a new commodore like car without the price tag or the expensive petrol bill

    Alex Leggerini Posted on 24 October 2007 9:47am
  • So we have another "pretend" Holden. Come on Australia how about an ALL AUSTRALIAN manufactured Holden like the old days. Are not we tired of all this re-badging???

    alan heeps Posted on 24 October 2007 9:47am
  • by all means build it ,throw in a two door version right up to some big boots under it, and give it a hsv enhancement package,keeps peeple working down under this has got to be good folks

    andy mason Posted on 24 October 2007 9:47am
  • HSV will probably make a single turbo V6 version and then charge too much for it.

    Robert Poole Posted on 24 October 2007 9:47am
  • By all means bring back the Torana but please dont saddle it with a lousy 4 cylinder engine. At least give it a decent V6 and by that I mean nothing less than 3 litres. If you are going to offer something to rival a 3 series Beemer, give it the heart to do it with. I have owned a couple of Toranas, an LJ and then an LH G Pak. If the new Torana offers a ride similar to or better than the G Pak and its 3 litre V6 is engineered properly, GM are definitely onto a winner. Might even encourage me to go back to the GMH dealership.

    Graham Jackaman Posted on 23 October 2007 6:12pm
  • This article is confusing... So they like idea of the Torana concept car. They don't like the name or the car. They want to make it like a BMW. They aren't going to have a V6 or V8 version. They only thing they really want is a small rear wheel drive to compete with the BMW 3 series on some level. 2nd last paragraph says it all. My old V6 torana will be rolling over in it's rusty grave.

    Dave Miller Posted on 23 October 2007 4:20pm
  • I¿ve owned many Toranas and would seriously consider purchasing a new one, should it ever be offered. Just a few thoughts though... Every 4 cylinder Torana of yesteryear left a lot to be desired. Who can forget the TA with the Opel motor or the LX/UC Missfire 4 or Opel(less) 1900 offerings. It was the " big (v) 6 or V8 lump" under the bonnet, of Toranas such as the L34, A9X or the road going versions in the form of the SLR that accurately represent the TORANA badge in Australian folklore. These "Toranas" were probably so popular because they offered a far better power to weight ratio, and slightly better handling than the family "Kingswood". A new four cylinder Torana??? I hope not.. that would not turn my crank, unless there was one for EACH rear wheel, or it had twin turbos, or rivalled a Lotus in weight and grunt. Lutz claims they want to be a little different..Grandpa's boring C4mry would still be a boring C4mry even if it had rear wheel drive... I have read somewhere that "torana" is aboriginal for sunrise. The birth of a new day or era. Don't let the new Torana represent a sunset on an icon. I hope the powers to be, offer at least a small, lightweight V6, as an option in the Torana. The 1.1l, 50 HP, four cylinder engine could be saved for a GEMINI rebirth.

    Paul Patak Posted on 23 October 2007 4:18pm
  • this looks crappy, an all American big Mac special, GM holden people are loser's bogans everywhere.

    wz Posted on 23 October 2007 4:18pm
  • Hope it comes out with the biggest, noisiest Chevrolet V8 Imaginable and I want one!

    Neil Lihou Posted on 23 October 2007 2:08pm
  • If they bring out anything close to the Torana TT36 concept car i will be putting in my bids to buy asap, i love it, its everything you could ever want in a small car being rear wheel drive.

    Natalie Hanna Posted on 23 October 2007 2:08pm
  • They call it a Torana! It looks nothin g like a Torry, either the XU! - SLR or the A9X. Its nothing more than a scaled down Commodore, plenty of Commodores running around now as it is without having matchbox versions of them as well.Its known that us Aussies can & do build decent cars, so why not do a proper version of a true Aussie icon. The Monaro has been back for some years now, along with the GT & now the release of the Cobra. Is it poosible to have the full Aussie collection & add the Charger in that also?

    Duane Drew Posted on 23 October 2007 1:18pm
  • Always loved the Holdens but never had a Commodore. Just to be for a single person and only 25 with no plans for a family. This would be an ideal size car for me and i have loved since i saw it at the Sydney Motor Show a couple of years ago.

    Paul Dunningham Posted on 23 October 2007 1:18pm
  • How is this a Torana based car? In the UK it is being touted as something else completely. More sales hype I guess.

    David Aldridge Posted on 23 October 2007 1:18pm
  • I'm so excited to read this! I absolutely loved the concept torry and was sad to realise I could never have one. Bring it on! and PLEASE make it in "man pink" with the to-die-for interior.................. mmmmmmmmmmgrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    katrina tomaszek Posted on 23 October 2007 1:18pm
  • The performance Torana that the Australian public love was the V8 power one. For the enthusiasts of the SLR500 and A9X its a step backwards but overall not a bad looking car. If Holden wants to sell this one, option it with a 6 litre engine and watch them go like hot cakes.

    Michael Posted on 23 October 2007 1:18pm
  • The ability to produce controlled oversteer is what generated an entire new class of racing called drift. 25 years ago I had a FWD golf 1 which was tweaked and in the rain has the worst understeer ever I never felt "in charge" my 86 2.5i alfa 75 is probaly one of the most fun toys I have ever owned after getting rid of my treacherous 180sx. the reason the 3 series sell so well is this recipe alone. FWD cars are for the ignorant masses who use cars as transport alone. but for the purists and the drivers among us a 50/50 weight split RWD is Nirvana!

    Paul Harris Posted on 23 October 2007 1:18pm
  • Simple - Front wheel drive cars suck !!!!!

    jon loughron Posted on 23 October 2007 1:12pm
  • dear sir i cann't work out if the new car from holden the (torana tt36 ) is based on the torana concept car why is it been called a pontiac and not what it is a holden torana. it is going to be a nice looking car, but what would put me off buying it would be the name it is given

    les wheat Posted on 23 October 2007 1:12pm
  • Bogans everywhere will rejoice.

    Richo Posted on 23 October 2007 1:12pm
  • Ah very good, another V6 to chew up more petrol. hopefully we see some diesels come through or improved petrol engines. petrol prices are at their highest, and we see BMW, VW and the likes looking for alternative engines that can still have the performance people want with the economy and efficiency making motoring affordable again. Come on GM, be inspiring! Let's make Australian cars all round great!

    Blinky Bill Posted on 23 October 2007 1:12pm
  • Sounds great, i love hearing about new RWD vehicles being developed.

    Daniel Posted on 23 October 2007 1:12pm
  • Ive been very interested in Early Chevrolets 1957 - 1958. And Buick Sedans - Coups 1957 - 1958 In Australia these older cars are very sought after,They have such a high resale value here Chevrolets prices Aust $32.000. And the early Buicks are averaging up to $45.000 Thousand Dollars Australian . Anyway i often buy a popular magazine called Just Cars this magazine attracts many buyers who are wanting the true American Muscle Cars,just like me ,there's something very special about the great lasting quality's - the larger v8 Engines - many have manual selection gears,Anyway hope you can get an ad in this Magazine to attract protential American Muscle Car Buyers. Sincerely Yours. Rodger Gittoes. Email busyladybird@redzone.com.au

    Mr Rodger Gittoes Posted on 22 October 2007 9:52am
  • Yeah um gavin there is currently a small RWD car. The BMW 1 series. Go and drive one and tell me if it drives better than some of the other FWD hatches. Not really. Plus small rear wheel drive cars are easy to turn around on themselves. Not to mention they have less boot space which is a problem when the boot is small to being with. Now this Torana on the other hand aint small. It's medium so RWD is great for it. When can i buy one?

    Luke Posted on 22 October 2007 9:52am
  • There is actually a rear wheel drive corolla. It is called the Toyota Corolla AE86 Sprinter Trueno. There is a hatchback variant and a coupe variant. The car is weighted 940 kg.

    Tommy Posted on 22 October 2007 9:42am
  • Gee by 2011, will there be cars then.

    DAVID Posted on 22 October 2007 9:42am
  • After a life time commitment to the General Motors Family, I yesterday sold my commodore to buy a smaller rear wheel drive car with Japanese heritage. The commodore was getting toooo big and I could not justify the need for such a large vehicle. Mr Lutz, you have not been listening to what the public have been saying for so long. FWD is for small cars ONLY!

    Bruce Daniel Posted on 22 October 2007 9:38am
  • Awesome, i love small rear wheel drive cars!!!! I can't understand why someone doesn't make a rear wheel light car. Imagine a rear wheel drive corolla, instant cult car.

    gavin Posted on 19 October 2007 5:15pm
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